Question about my old dog

[farmgirl]

Hi. I hope you don't mind me just jumping in with a question.

I have an old dog that I inherited about a year ago. He's a husky/collie mix about 10 years old. He belonged to my neighbors until the lady passed away and the gentleman had to go to a nursing home.

They fed him a lot of rich table food and a little bit of cheap dog food. When I got him, I started feeding him the good stuff. My husband actually buys it because he's the one who goes to town every day - but I'm pretty sure it's the IAMS adult formula - or maybe it's Eukanuba. We just buy a huge bag and pore it into the big plastic bin and throw the bag away so I can't remember! Anyway - I remember originally researching it to see if it was good or not, and it was good . . .

So. He was really fat when we got him, and he started losing weight on the good food, which I thought was great. He doesn't really like it, so he just eats a little bit. But now it's been a year and he still hasn't learned to like it. He's becoming too thin. His hip bones are sticking out.

I thought he was just on a hunger strike and he'd realize it was 'eat the nutritious stuff or starve', and start eating it, but it seems he'd rather starve. We have tried a couple of different brands of the good stuff, but he turns his nose up at it.

He'll never turn his nose up at table food, but I haven't wanted to give it to him very often. Lately I've been caving in a little - in the interest of keeping him alive!

Is there anything healthy I can do to improve the flavor of his food without resorting to table scraps? I've heard old dogs can be stubborn but gee whiz.

[Karen]

First I'd get him checked out by a vet, to be sure there's not an underlying medical issue at stake. Then maybe, if you are just feeding kibble, try mixing in a little canned food, see if that makes it more appealing to him, as it'll ceratinly smell different.

[farmgirl]

First I'd get him checked out by a vet, to be sure there's not an underlying medical issue at stake. Then maybe, if you are just feeding kibble, try mixing in a little canned food, see if that makes it more appealing to him, as it'll ceratinly smell different.

He has to go in for his shots soon, anyway. I wish I could remember exactly which month we got him, but the old couple's daughter took him in for his shots right before she brought him over. I think it's coming up soon.

I'm actually kind of scared it's a medical thing, and that's making me scared to bring him to the vet. I had the sweetest old dog who got cancer, and the vet pushed me to put him to sleep. She said our choices were to go through chemotherapy and the whole nine yards, or put him to sleep. She didn't seem to think allowing him to die naturally was a choice at all, and I was such a pushover. I still think my old guy could have had a few more happy days in this world and regret having him put to sleep that day.

What if I go in and they tell me he has some terrible disease? Then I'll have to choose between treating it and extending his suffering, putting him to sleep, or bringing him home and letting him die naturally. He's so old, I know it's likely that something is very wrong. He's old and slow and probably arthiritic.

Maybe I'll just try the canned food and see if he eats better, before I bring him in. Then, if it doesn't work, at least I'll be prepared.

He's such a sweet old dog.

[lizbud]

I think I would visit another Vet, if you think the last one was too pushy,
but I still wouldn't feel right about not seeing a Vet to check him over. It
could be a very bad case of worms, or some other less serious problem that
can be corrected AND make the dog feel more comfortable. I was thinking
the dog might have some dental problems that would also make him eat less.
Good luck to you both.I love senior dogs, they should have a special place
in everyone's heart.

[farmgirl]

I think I would visit another Vet, if you think the last one was too pushy,
but I still wouldn't feel right about not seeing a Vet to check him over. It
could be a very bad case of worms, or some other less serious problem that
can be corrected AND make the dog feel more comfortable. I was thinking
the dog might have some dental problems that would also make him eat less.
Good luck to you both.I love senior dogs, they should have a special place
in everyone's heart.

You're right. Even if he's not just being stubborn because he doesn't like the food, it might not be a life-threatening problem. It could be something treatable. And maybe he really is just being stubborn. I know another vet who seems less pushy. Vets intimidate me so badly, sometimes - they can be so arrogant and opinionated. I knew it was going to mean a trip to the vet before I even asked the quesiton. I was just hoping somebody would pipe in and say "Oh, that's normal! Old dogs are opposed to change! Just try X brand of dog food and everything will be OK."

[Glacier]

All my older dogs prefer their kibble soaked and with a couple tablespoons of canned food mixed in. Paxil will not eat dry kibble, but she'll wolf down the same kibble if it's been soaked a bit. Maybe your oldtimer just wants softer food too.

[dragondawg]

He has to go in for his shots soon, anyway. I wish I could remember exactly which month we got him, but the old couple's daughter took him in for his shots right before she brought him over. I think it's coming up soon.

I'm actually kind of scared it's a medical thing, and that's making me scared to bring him to the vet. I had the sweetest old dog who got cancer, and the vet pushed me to put him to sleep. She said our choices were to go through chemotherapy and the whole nine yards, or put him to sleep. She didn't seem to think allowing him to die naturally was a choice at all, and I was such a pushover. I still think my old guy could have had a few more happy days in this world and regret having him put to sleep that day.

What if I go in and they tell me he has some terrible disease? Then I'll have to choose between treating it and extending his suffering, putting him to sleep, or bringing him home and letting him die naturally. He's so old, I know it's likely that something is very wrong. He's old and slow and probably arthiritic.

Maybe I'll just try the canned food and see if he eats better, before I bring him in. Then, if it doesn't work, at least I'll be prepared.

He's such a sweet old dog.

First "soon" is not soon enough. Try the alternate Vet. Any Vet who does not "push" for Chemotherapy per your prior dog, when it's a viable option, should be avoided.

Most Vets I've run into will give a direct answer to a direct question. The task that we as dog owners must do is to educate ourselves, so that we know the right questions to ask.

It is very unlikely that it's cancer. Most canine cancers if untreated will run their course in just a few months. If the dog has been losing weight for a year and cancer was involved it would be dead long before now. On the other hand if the dog has really only been losing weight for past month then cancer can not be eliminated as a possible cause.

There are many other possible causes. It may be due to parasites either directly in the intestine, whipworms, or heartworms. Likewise anatomical problems such as heart or liver disease can cause weight problems. Finally metabolic diseases such as diabetes, or Addison's disease, malabsorption (e.g. low pancreatic enzymes) may cause loss of weight.

Your plan when the dog visits the Vet is to make sure a heartworm test is performed, a fecal sample is examined, and a full metabolic blood panel is run. This may get you a hit on the problem or additional tests may be needed. If the Vet seems unable to diagnose after the initial tests, add for an immediate referral to a specialist.

Once you have identified the underlying cause with your Vet, then you can address the appetite based on the condition. You may want to ask your Vet as to how to stimulate the appetite more be it with Vitamin B12 shots, or even Valium. Assuming it isn't determental to the underlying condition discuss with your Vet the wisdom of changing the dog to a high performance (high protein/high fat) diet. But again the protein and fat in the diet will be determined by the underlying condition which must be defined first. For example if the dog is in early kidney disease increasing the protein is the last thing you want to do.

In summary: Get the dog to a Vet immediately. Don't wait for when it's due for its yearly examination. Your dog has more than a simple appetite problem.

[farmgirl]

In summary: Get the dog to a Vet immediately. Don't wait for when it's due for its yearly examination. Your dog has more than a simple appetite problem.

Gee. I think I liked Glacier's answer a lot better.

But the determination has been made. I'll call the vet tomorrow.

In the meantime, I'll pray that he's just an old dog that needs softer food.

[farmgirl]

Oh, by the way, thanks a bunch for the detailed answer dragondawg!

[Karen]

Good luck at the vet tomorrow, and do let us know what the vet says.

By the way, what is th old boy dog's name and breed? Just curious!

[Catlady711]

I'm actually kind of scared it's a medical thing, and that's making me scared to bring him to the vet. He's so old, I know it's likely that something is very wrong.

What if I go in and they tell me he has some terrible disease? Maybe I'll just try the canned food and see if he eats better, before I bring him in. Then, if it doesn't work, at least I'll be prepared.

I don't mean to offend on purpose here, but I see and hear stuff like this at work on a daily basis and it just makes me mad!

WHY on earth do people wait if they're afraid it's a medical problem????? I have seen so many dogs/cats come in our hospital in the most horrible condition and suffering because the owners waited! Not only that, but in alot of cases, if they had brought the animal in first thing when they noticed the problem we could have treated it, however because they waited the pet was not only suffering needlessly, but now untreatable due to the damage caused by the illness!!! NEVER wait to see your vet, time can be of the utmost importance.

I had the sweetest old dog who got cancer, and the vet pushed me to put him to sleep.

Just because your previous dog had cancer does NOT mean that this dog does!! They are two different dogs!! If you doubt your vets diagnosis or treatment, then seek a second opinion from another vet!!! A good vet should never have a problem with this.

He's old and slow and probably arthiritic.

Arthritis is TREATABLE!!! There are many good arthritis medications your vet can prescribe for dogs that would help alot with the pain and suffering of old age. Dogs do NOT need to suffer needlessly because people think that it's simply old age and nothing can be done. 30 years ago that may have been the case, but it's simply NOT TRUE now!

She said our choices were to go through chemotherapy and the whole nine yards, or put him to sleep. She didn't seem to think allowing him to die naturally was a choice at all, and I was such a pushover. I still think my old guy could have had a few more happy days in this world and regret having him put to sleep that day.

Do you know what 'dying naturally' is, especially when it comes to cancer?? It means a GREAT DEAL OF PAIN, organs shutting down, lungs filling up with fluids so that breathing is very difficult and PAINFUL!!! It means NOT BEING ABLE to enjoy those ear scratches, or treats or walks anymore. Your vet was trying to spare your dog AND YOU the pain of having to endure all that!! I've seen what happens when they are nearing the end with cancer especially, and I've seen the pain the pets AND owners go through when they elect to let it 'die naturally'. In most cases the owners regret that they waited, and that their last memories of the dog were of it totally wracked in pain and nothing like the dog they remembered for all those years!

A good vet would only suggest this as a last resort when all other viable options have been tried and failed, and when the death of the dog is immenent! It is CERTAINLY NOT a job the vet likes to do, or even likes having to offer as an option when all other viable options fail!! They are there to HELP pets not to randomly euthanize animals for the sake of meaness!!! If you doubt your vets diagnosis or options available, seek a second opinion from another vet!

Then I'll have to choose between treating it and extending his suffering, putting him to sleep

I always tell our clients that if they will simply make a list with two columns...

1) Things that make a quality life (favorite treats, going for a walk, brushing, etc)

2) Things that my pet is still able to enjoy doing without pain.

When you see that the first column out numbers the second column by quite a bit then you'll know that 'it's time'.

And if you're honest in the list, and the first column quite a bit longer than the second, then you should evaluate whether you're stalling for the pet's sake, or yours!

[farmgirl]

OK. He's OK. Everything has come back fine so far, but my husband was the one who brought him in so I didn't get to talk to the vet. The reason my husband had to bring him in is because I had to go for a surgery which I waited ten years to get, because I have witnessed the ill effects of medical interventions hundreds of times in my career. My husband said the vet said to raise his food up a few inches and wet it before he eats it, but that he looks like a normal dog his age. His teeth had apparently been cleaned rather recently, as he didn't need a cleaning. She said his weight is on the low side of healthy but it's probably good for him to be light because of his arthritis, which he will be taking rimadyl for.

And I won't be coming back here again. I see human beings die every day, and I know for a fact that dying naturally with comfort measures only (including pain meds if necessary) is much, much, much better than dying under medical care so you all can take your uninformed, much-too-strong opinions and shove them up your a$$es.

I wouldn't want to put a dog through anything I wouldn't go through and if you think that's uncompassionate then you just aren't thinking straight.

I hope, when you all are old and unable to communicate, that somebody sticks you in a nursing home with a feeding tube and turns you every two hours and keeps you alive until you're a hundred - "because it's the right thing to do."

Visit a hospice or a nursing home or the oncology ward of a hospital and talk to beings who can actually communicate their pain verbally, then maybe you will have a feeling what a dog might be going through while you insist on chemotherapy.

[My Peanuts]

I'm glad to see you took in this older dog and it looks like you are trying to help him. Just so you know Iam/Eukanuba is not good food. It's priced high and the ingredients aren't that great. I used to use Eukanuba until I learned it wasn't that great. Also Iams has been known to test on animals, namely dogs.

I don't know about you but I don't want my dogs eating food that was tested on dogs. There were some horror stories. I don't know if they cleaned up their act, but I thought I'd tell you.

For the price of those foods you can get a lot better food. I feed Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers soul Adult formula. My dogs love it and the ingredients are top notch. It might not be the best for your guy, every dog is different, but Iams is bad. Chicken Soup food is priced the same or a little cheaper than Eukanuba. Look on the bag, if the food uses corn or byproducts it's a bad food.

Also, when it comes to food you can’t always trust your vet. They get promotions from certain companies and they push certain foods and products.

Just thought I'd let you know, for the money there are better foods out there.

[dragondawg]

if the food uses corn or byproducts it's a bad food.

Mr Peanuts,

Please tell me why my two 3 yr old dogs have the following characteristics:

1. An ideal weight.
2. No allergies including coat and food allergies.
3 No metabolic problems
4. No reoccuring infections
5. High energy levels

yet I feed them bad food? Please tell me how this miracle has occured? Also for extra credit tell me how my other 10 yr old dog managed to survive and flourish on this same bad food?

farmgirl,

Is it safe to assume that the dog has not been on rimadyl up to this time? Sometimes that drug doesn't get along with the liver too well which would affect appetite. There are other doggy NSAID drugs available.

Pick a high quality food, be it Iams, Science Diet, Hills, or some other. Mine gets Propet, not available everywhere in the country. You might want to put some left over meat juices or failing that a little beef broth on the food to encourage eating. Of course any moist food not eaten within a couple of hrs needs to be thrown out. If you continue to have eating problems get a referral to a specialist.

[My Peanuts]

Mr Peanuts,

Please tell me why my two 3 yr old dogs have the following characteristics:

1. An ideal weight.
2. No allergies including coat and food allergies.
3 No metabolic problems
4. No reoccuring infections
5. High energy levels

yet I feed them bad food? Please tell me how this miracle has occured? Also for extra credit tell me how my other 10 yr old dog managed to survive and flourish on this same bad food?

.

Wow, you are probably the rudest person I have encountered on PT in all the years I have been a member. First of all, my screen name is MY peanuts and my name is Diana.

I was simply passing on GOOD friendly advice that I was given when I joined here. Byproducts are what's left over from good meats and corn is only a filler. I'm glad your dog is doing well, but the fact is foods with those ingredients especially if they are closer to the beginning of the list are BAD foods. It's like if you were to eat hot dogs every day. Some people might do fine on a diet like that while others would not. If you doubt what I'm saying there was a test in Dog General that graded food. Chicken Soup for the Dog lovers Soul got an A+ at 115%. All I was trying to was tell farmgirl that for the money there are MUCH better foods. I'm sorry that you take such advice as a personal attack on you.