Speaking of illegal immigrants...

[sparks19]

Your posts could not come from someone that had known such dire straits. And, you had means available to you, as you wouldn't be here if you did not. (I hardly consider living apart from one's recently married spouse dire straits).

There isn't any law that one must have empathy. You are free to make your judgments, as are all of us. But, I would hope that you would recognize the image you leave behind with your message.

Who's to say that my husband didn't save me from dire straits?

Anyway

to be honest. I don't really care about my "image" I believe what I believe and everyone else can make their assumptions from there. I don't live my life and believe what I do worrying about what others might think of me. There are ways for refugees to come to the US. Many have done it, many others can do it, they just choose not to.

I am sorry, I do NOT condone illegal immigration for anyone and if that makes me a bad person in your eyes well then so be it. There have been many refugees that have come from FAR worse conditions than Mexico and yet they are legal

[mugsy]

At the risk of sounding callous to PTers...are we saying EVERYONE should be able to come here and live and have all the rights of American citizens without becoming a citizen? I guess I'm a bit confused...I'm proud to be an American, but feel that everyone who wants to come here needs to process properly! I welcome anyone who comes here and follows proper procedures, but, this other crap is for the birds....

As for U.S. History...yes, we were all, at some point, immigrants, with the exception of Native Americans, however, we were subjects of Britain (or Holland, or Germany, or Sweden, etc). When we fought the American Revolution and gained our independence, we wrote the Articles of Confederation (which were basically useless) and then scrapped those and wrote the Constitution and we became the United States of America. At that point there were immigration laws put into place, and while they have changed over time, we still use them today in order to keep our country safe and not over run with masses of humanity.

[ylrebmik]

coming in a bit late here but...

I hate how people can come to our country and not pay taxes for 5 years. It sucks. And I hate how people come up with little organizations to go up against A CHRISTMAS TREE.. give me a break. Also, it annoys me so much how juries work. They put the stupidest people on those things. "Hey, some girl was being dumb and got burned from mcdonalds coffee while driving... let's make someone being stupid rich!" Everything is becoming a scam and if it isn't a scam- it is prejudice. Religion, color, race, doesn't matter. I just had a talk with someone the other day how it's like a white person is becoming the minority and others are being pitied more. Ya, whites did a lot of harm to indians, blacks, etc. but do they need to STILL be paid off? Immigants... why can't they just become a citizen if they hate thier country so much? I don't pity what happened to him because of what happened but i don't agree with what did happen. But then again.. it leads me back to "juries, scams, and prejudice" The juries got him in jail, the parents were scamming and someone out of that (or more) were prejudice. I think the government is going down the drain and something has to be done... or we are just getting stupider. Some of the things are up to the jury people (this one might have) so in a waay... americans could have put him in jail. Americans are using pity and scam to destory eachother. Its sad and i know this is heading off topic.. very... but yeah i'm disgusted with how my country is run sometimes.. even though i hate all governments practically. Systems don't work.

More for people coming here- they can come here all they want but i agree with mugsy- go through it properly.

Also, as long as i am ranting about the government, i do not agree with us being "police of the world" I mean as great as it is, look what happened in Star Wars. The jedi's were the peace keepers and then they turned and killed them off! Now there are people trying to blow planes up through explosives in LIQUID! I wonder when we will learn to keep off and HELP keep peace- not control it.

Alright i can go on forever so i'll stop. But sentence about the actual thread: I don't pity him but i don't agree with what happened.

[lbaker]

huh?

[jackie]

At the risk of sounding callous to PTers...are we saying EVERYONE should be able to come here and live and have all the rights of American citizens without becoming a citizen? I guess I'm a bit confused...I'm proud to be an American, but feel that everyone who wants to come here needs to process properly! I welcome anyone who comes here and follows proper procedures, but, this other crap is for the birds....

Not what I am saying at all.

It was more in response to the few people who feel this man was there illegally and therfore shouldn't be entitled to free legal representation/he is a criminal and deserved jail time.

I don't know, for me it is a touchy subject because I personally know a lot of illegal immigrants here, and they would jump atthe chance to do everything above board.

[Vio&Juni]

There aren't any poor people in the United States or in Canada.

[JenBKR]

There aren't any poor people in the United States or in Canada.

Was that sarcastic? Or are you asking? I sure hope you weren't serious!

[Vio&Juni]

JenBKR, that is exactly the response I was expecting. It's the same I feel when I see phrases like "if they would do it properly". I am sure people don't even know what they are talking about.

Do people really think that you can go to e.g. US Embassy in Moldova and say - I want to be an American citizen? Yes, a lot of Moldovans did get the settlement visa, but most of them were married to American citizens, just like Sparks - that is not immigration - that is a settlement visa for a wife (husband) that can give you the right to apply for citizenship after a few years. But, then again, if your marriage fails you're expected to go back to your country.

People can't go to the US embassy and say "I want to move to the US and live there, and become a citizen because life is better there". But people still want a better life for themselves and for their children and they find ways to get there, maybe with a legal visitor visa, overstaying, maybe crossing the border illegally. The problem exists and it will exist and if you toughen the rules, it just doesn't help cutting down illegal immigration - it will only help the facilitators - prices for their services will go up and the illegal immigrants will just suffer more humiliations when trying to cross the border. Believe me. I come from a country where 1/4 of the country is working abroad illegally. We have huge problems with people trafficking and even organ selling.

My point here is that by shouting loud "I could do it, why can't others do it like me?" it's impossible to solve this problem. The solution isn't simple, it's just as complicated as the problem.

To be understood correctly, I do not say that illegal immigration is good. I never did in this thread. I did say I don't think it is a crime, because by our legislation crime is something related to homicide, we have another word for minor deliquencies. It is illegal. What I tried to say was that people like to point fingers without even trying to understand the situation.

Let's do the following - check the website of the International Organisation for Migration (or any other organisation that deals with migration, BBC website might have some links to some websites) and see for yourselves how sophisticated is this problem and what solutions have been found for illegal immigration in different parts of the world. See the horror people go through to get to a better place and then tell me again "it's a free ride".

BTW, I don't think there is a better place than my country. I'd never leave my country if it was just for a better quality life.

[JenBKR]

JenBKR, that is exactly the response I was expecting. It's the same I feel when I see phrases like "if they would do it properly". I am sure people don't even know what they are talking about.

Gottcha, for a second I was afraid that you may actually believe that everyone here is rich, which is so far from the truth. I tend to not weigh in too much about the immigration issue personally because I can see both sides. Dang, wouldn't life be easier if everyone just loved everyone and anyone could just go wherever they want? In a perfect world.......

[RICHARD]

There aren't any poor people in the United States or in Canada.

You are 100 percent correct.


People who live in AMerica are rich beyond beleif.

We might not have the best country on the planet.

We have crime, hate, injustice and all the things that go along with being the
"superpower" that people make us out to be.


Our richeness has tio do with the opportunity, freedoms, and ability to choose
what we want out of life....

THere are many people who think that riches are just connected with money.
Those are the people who are poor of heart.

I like to believe that I am richer than Bill GAtes.

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I tend to think that the bias towards illegal immigrants is the fact that they are breaking a law and overstressing a system that is out of order already.

It has nothing to do with where they come from.

But, that is my own simple belief.

[Randi]

Just remember ... what is illegal today, may be legal tomorrow.

[lbaker]

amen Sister

[momoffuzzyfaces]

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I tend to think that the bias towards illegal immigrants is the fact that they are breaking a law and overstressing a system that is out of order already.

It has nothing to do with where they come from.

But, that is my own simple belief.

You hit the nail right on the head as far as I'm concerned and have already said before!!!

We may be the richest country on earth but we also have a real problem with homeless people. How can we reasonably expect to absorb hundreds of people sneaking into the country every day when we can't help the homeless or our senior citizens for that matter now?

It's like saying " We don't care about you even though you are citizens. We are giving all the support to people who really shouldn't even be here. "

I truly hope everyone owns their own home and has a nice nest egg by the time they hit retirement age you you will be in a royal mess! Believe me, I speak from experience!!!

[mugsy]

I don't know, for me it is a touchy subject because I personally know a lot of illegal immigrants here, and they would jump atthe chance to do everything above board.

Then why are they not doing it??? Just asking...not trying to be nasty.

I just think that we need to have better border control...on both borders and stiffer penalites for those who come here illegally.

I think we need to take care of our own first and then help others. I know if I lived like some of the people in the back hills of Appalachia and KNEW how much aid was going overseas and I wasn't getting any of it, I would be beyond livid.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think we need to take care of our own first and then help others. I know if I lived like some of the people in the back hills of Appalachia and KNEW how much aid was going overseas and I wasn't getting any of it, I would be beyond livid.

Yes...just think if we weren't in Iraq helping them establish a new government what we could do with that money here at home....New Orleans.....etc.