Speaking of illegal immigrants...

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was referring to a particular group. I was referring to Mexicans specifically because of that whole walk out thing. Do you remember that?

it wasn't just a blatant stab in the dark.

Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

Assuming that by....whole walk out thing you mean the May 1 protest demonstration?

You know...I started to type an explanation of what the protest was about, but what's the point? Your mind is made up about them.

[RICHARD]

Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

Springsteen Rocks!


Sara.

Thank you for your support of human beings, period.

I walk the line on this issue.

my heart does feel, but my mind is outraged about the abuses to the system and the neighborhoods.


Here in the San Fernando Valley there are areas where there are three families jammed into a single family dwelling.

On the properties adjacent to my house there has been three 'add-ons'......

They are totally illega (buildings)l and I can see that the wiring and plumbing are haphazardly done

One houses a home business where cat scratching post are built.

I have cleaned up trash, bottles, papers and dirty diapers that were tossed over the fence onto my property.

-------------
The families change every few months.

THe kids aren't in school and the property and the sheds added on to the house look worse every time someone new moves in.

Draining the wash water into my yard, tying the clothes line onto the fence and breaking out the boards are not signs of a good neighbors.

The owner of the house has admitted to renting to 'families who are here illegally".

What do I do?

[sparks19]

Yes... a number of my "born in the USA....American citizen" friends participated in it.

Assuming that by....whole walk out thing you mean the May 1 protest demonstration?

You know...I started to type an explanation of what the protest was about, but what's the point? Your mind is made up about them.

LOL don't judge me and tell me what I think and how I feel. I don't hate mexicans as you apparently would like to believe. I know many and have many mexican friends. HOWEVER, I am sorry but I cannot condone breaking the law no matter if you are black white brown purple green or multicoloured. I don't care. Breaking the law is breaking the law

But please sit back and continue to judge me.

I do NOT agree with giving criminals a free ride to citizenship. Sorry but if that makes me racist or prejudice or whatever else you would like to assume about me then fine but I would feel exactly the same way if my next door neighbour were an illegal immigrant.

They CHOSE to come here illegally. They should suffer the consequences of it not get expedited to citizenship.


And by THEM I mean anyone. Is that offensive to everyone too?

[Edwina's Secretary]

You see criminals.

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

[sparks19]

You see criminals.

FACT (Black Letter LAW)

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

OPINION

Please note that if these "poor souls" came to this country LEGALLY, they would not have to live such a "hard life".

Like it or not, this is a world of absolutes. When we as a society begin to blur the line....

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

I also know a couple that were veterinarians in Columbia and they came to Canada LEGALLY (which is just as hard as getting to the States) and now they are cleaners in an apartment building. It sucks, but if they could do it legally then anyone can.

Now please tell me why you think ONLY the southern border should be awarded these special treatments. Why doesn't everyone deserve this? How do you know I didn't come from poverty? Just because I am from Canada? So if someone were to rob your house you wouldn't press charges if they were "under privileged" ? (In MY house, they would leave with more holes than they come in with.... Sorry, but I do not have time to run a credit check on a home intruder.) They deserve to take your hard earned money because they don't make as much as you? If this isn't how you really feel then I don't see how you can support illegal immigration. They wouldn't have to do these crap jobs if they had come here legally and were able to apply for a "regular" job. Again, coming to America illegally is CHOICE. They have the choice to come here legally or illegally. They made the wrong choice. Why should we reward that? You are pro CHOICE aren't you? Why do I not deserve to come here to LIVE with my husband without having to pay all that money and having to fill out all that paper work? Because I am white? Because I don't come from hardship? Why? Tell me. Why do they deserve to be happy when they broke the law and I deserve to pay all the money and go through the stress because I "chose" my husband. Why punish the fruits of our labour? Because I busted my a$$ to be with my husband I don't deserve it? Success should not be punished, it should be rewarded. Success isn't given out, it is earned. I think it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to give people special treatment because they don't make as much money as I do. I WORKED (LEGALLY) to get where I am. Why does that make me a bad person? Why does THAT put me in the position to be judged by YOU?

Like I said earlier... This is a world of absolute TRUTH. You may spin it as you wish but history does not lie.

A thin line there is between Law and Chaos. Our society depends on the rule of law. The more that area is greyed out.... How do YOU plan to defend yourself when law and order fails? Will you run to the "poor and oppressed" you so vainly defend?

I wait eagerly for your spin.



P.S.- No where in this thread did I say he deserved 5 years in prison. All I said was that he technically was a criminal (despite your "views" on the LAW) I even said that he may not have deserved what he got and he deserves restitution HOWEVER I think HIS country should pay for it.

P.S.S- Do you know what Mexico does to their illegal immigrants?

[Edwina's Secretary]

The problem with absolutes is they are so ...well absolute.

For example....a man driving his in-labor wife to the hospital is speeding. Cop stops him....absolute says....detain him, write up ticket, etc.

Another example....kind and gentle man loves cats...hates suffering. He provides a home for many otherwise homeless cats...more than the law allows. Has them spayed or neutered...feeds them, provides them with proper vet care. He loves them while they live and mourns them when they die. Absolute says....must obey the law....cats over the limit have to go!

I see circumstances in both of these situations that suggest compassion, understanding and something more than absolute.

To me, the world is far more complex than absolute allows.

[lizbud]

Better be careful Sara, your wisdom is showing. Bravo.

[Killearn Kitties]

To me, the world is far more complex than absolute allows.

Absolutely!

[Cataholic]

P.S.S- Do you know what Mexico does to their illegal immigrants?

While in general, I have some issues with what seems to be your lack of compassion towards others, it is this statement that I select specifically.

This is somewhat of the 'problem'. A country that does such a thing to their illegals is not to be congratulated, or, be held up as some example. And, maybe, just maybe, some of the people crossing our borders are attempting to escape such a country for reasons like this.

While it is one thing to say, "you can only come here if you do it 'legally'", it is quite another to consider the people for which this is virtually an impossible task. I just don't see it so simply as you do. You seem to think that, "If they would only just try, they could do it". I don't think that is accurate.

For me, I just can't look at the world without compassion and empathy. While I don't claim to have the answers to any of life's problems, I don't walk around without knowing how very priviledged and fortunate I am to have been born an American. (which is not to mean I am disrespecting any other country, or, thinking that if you are not American, you aren't anyone. Just recognizing I live a pretty priviledged life, and haven't walked a half inch in anyone else's shoes.)

[Randi]

Well, I don't know that much about American history, but I know that most of the people living there are immigrants - or at least your ancestors are. I have not checked what the laws was like then, but I believe that when those people came to USA, they were given a piece of land and started from scratch to build houses and find work. Were they legal or illegal? I think that they felt a lot more welcome than today's immigrants!

The world has grown since, and some people are born in very poor places. Shouldn't they be entitled to a good life too? They are certainly not reluctant to take sh!t jobs!

John and I have travelled a few times to Dominican Republic, and although the tour guides recommended people not to go. John went to Haiti to see what life was like there. He filmed quite a lot, and also mixed with the locals (he had learned a few sentences in Creole, which helped him having an entirely different experience), while the rest of the group followed the guide, and in fact was scared of the population. When he came back to our hotel and told me how people were living there, I cried.

I have a feeling that a lot of Americans haven't travelled very much and seen what the world is like other places. Seeing things in real life often change your point of view I think. Recently, I saw a documentary about North Africans trying to get to Spain in small boats - it was heartbreaking! I would not have survived half the journey!

The immigration laws are changing all the time, and I think they need some adjusting now, to give everyone a fair chance to make a decent living. However, when a person comes to another country, he/she should make an effort to adjust to that country's rules and not try to convert the population to the rules they're used to.

Of course, the best solution would be to teach people in poor countries how to survive and build what is needed. Less children would help too.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Too bad we can't stop fighting wars and start helping other countries build up their economies so people wouldn't be so despirate they feel they have to leave, even if it breaks other countries laws.

Too bad some of our local programs for seniors and the low income have had to be canceled because the government can't afford to help it's own people any more either. I know lots of seniors who depend on some of those programs that no longer exist. (the programs, not the seniors)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Your mind is made up about them.

Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering?

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

[mugsy]

I am absolutely appalled that our government pays the way of so many illegal immigrants and has agreed to pay them Social Security (which is a benefit of American CITIZENS) and their medical care, etc. I don't care if they are white, black, brown, or green with pink stripes, if they are here illegally then they (the illegal immigrants from where ever) should be deported until such time that they can do it right. If the illegals are unwilling to do it correctly, and take the easy way out, then they need to stay where they came from until such time that they are willing to follow the steps.

As far as the May 1 walkout, we sort of giggled about it at school because it made no real difference and it didn't make a difference in business either. And the mere thought of the Mexican students in CO bringing down the American flag and running Mexican flag up the flagpole at their school about put me over the edge. IF they have such allegiance to Mexico, then STAY THERE.

However, as I said before, with the original reason for this thread, the man deserves some sort of compensation from our government since we are the people who wrongfully imprisoned him for 5 years.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering?

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

it was sarcasm MOFF...but you can certainly use any words you want to use!