Horrible experience @ pet store...

[K9karen]

Geez, everyone's a expert and critic.

Regardless of right, wrong, maybe, whatever, her job is to cashier. Period. You have to email or call the company and complain. When I worked a second job as a sales clerk in a local major department store, a fellow employee got canned for criticizing a customer's taste in clothes. You're the consumer, you basically pay their salary so complain. Don't let those nitwits affect you. You do what's best for you and your situation.

[bckrazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it.

D: ugh. I hope I read that wrong! I know you've given great advice, Redyre, but that is seriously a drastic measure, no? A painful and invasive surgery should be the last resort, as should muzzles, IMO.

Fozzie started developing barkiness, as is the tendancy of his breeds, and it just takes time & consistency to stop the behavior. He doesn't get any sort of reward for barking, and he completely stops with a stern "shhh", and he's only 5 months old. Puppy classes are great for socializing and practicing basic Obedience with distractions, but to be honest a l l of that info is available on the internet (http://4pawsu.com/articles.htmp has a lot of good pointers) and in books, so that shouldn't be to blame for behavioral issues. It sounds like the biggest factor in this is that the puppy does not respect the OP, and he's most likely using barking and jumping as means to demand attention from her. So, start at the root of the problem and work on that using NILIF & frequent training sessions at home. If it is difficult for you, find a good behaviorist, as you can get an appointment much sooner than September for a pretty affordable price, just to get one-on-one advice.

[dukedogsmom]

If it's a big chain of stores, you can get good results here:
www.planetfeedback.com
It's a great place to make sure the proper people see what's happening with their businesses. I've had good results and I've written more positive than negative letters.

I would have been fuming, were I you and would have talked to the manager right away. And I surely don't know how a shock collar is more humane.

[buttercup132]

First off I would rather take advice from my veterinarian than a sales clerk at a pet store!

BUT not many vets know THAT much...in some ways I know more then they do and I know that from past experience...and I was a pet store clerk..I know that where I worked they educated us on what we were doing we had to read a huge binder of info on every section in the store and what it dose for the animal and why.

or shocking the sh*t out of them more humane

That wont happen unless the dog ignores the shock, wich most dont.

which doesn't cover the whole snout-it is the thickness of a leash, well it looks like a leash for around the mouth)

If it looks liike that then it was probly a Halti wich isnt a muzzle its a training device to stop dogs from pullling...
a common misconception

I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it.

Why on earth would you do that. It would be easier AND cheaper to get them trained by a pro.. debark your dog wth!?!?!


Why not try spraying him with a water bottle?
By getting up your teaching him that he is winnning. You are rewarding him. Hes going to think "I'm barking , oh look shes getting up to tell me I'm good by petting me or tending to me"
Ignoring him all the time would be your best bet then squirt him a few times

The flea thing well...shes dumb for saying that
why make the dog even more uncomfortable?
The stuff on the dog dosent work right away it works within a month or a few month time...stupid girl

I agree they shouldnt be selling products they dissagree with and if they are then keep their mouts shut. Oh well its their loss no money for them!
I think if they are going to be like that with alot of people they will looose buisness fast.

[Bronx'sBower]

I agree with everyone and I thank you for your input. I realize I need to work with Bower ALOT more but I know I can do it, I just don't have much experience as our first pup died when he was 6 months, he was very obedient but he didn't live long enough to hit his "teen" years.
I did email the company, I wasn't rude but I definately made them know how she made me feel. You know it's pretty bad when a stranger makes you think twice on how good of a mom you are...I love my Bower and would never do anything to hurt him.
So last night and today we have been practicing "come" and he is getting much better. He has always had a problem with this, he acts like he doesn't hear us calling him. So I took his fav treat and let him sniff and lick it then walked back a couple small steps and said "come" and he did but not before ignoring me for a couple minutes. I just had to be patient and keep calling him, he eventually came and got the treat and now this morning everytime I tell him come he does.....I know I sound like an idiot but we really fell off the wagon and for him to pick it up so easily (I know it isn't over yet) is wonderful. Bower does really good when we are walking, I started the "heel" command as soon as we got him; he walks with me great and when he sometimes stops to take a sniff I can say "heel" and he'll fall right back in line.
He also has the "sit" command mastered but he also likes to shake so now we are teaching him to only shake when we tell him to. We tried it a few times last night and today and he is really catching on fast. I know he is an extremely smart dog...I just think with my lack of experience I am not being as smart as I could or should be.
My boss told me when we started potty training him that we had to spend atleast 3 solid days devoted only to him and his training. It only took 2 days to have him trained to potty outside and he has never had an accident since. I think this is how I am going to have to go about teaching him...Please don't think I am ignorant...I'm just lacking experience but am quickly learning.

To those that agree with using a shock collar-I guess I just didn't know. My fiance' suggested we buy one but I thought it was just his easy way out of not training Bower. I don't think there is anything wrong with using a shock collar but I think I was more upset that she told me I was inhumane~to me personally I think muzzles, citronella and shock collars are to some degree inhumane but it also depends on what purpose they serve.

[critter crazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!

[buttercup132]

You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!

Exactly and dogs neeed to bark its what dogs do.
If you dont want to deal with a dog barking get a hampster or something that dosent make noise...

(That wasnt directed to you Bowser's mom)

[RedyreRotties]

I happen to disagree that debarking is cruel.

I think correcting a dog all the time for barking is worse than a brief non invasive procedure to eliminate the annoyance of barking. If barking is such an issue that a muzzle is being considered, then I would consider eliminating the barking all together.

The de barked dogs get NO less pleasure from barking. They just don't make the noise.

To the OP: Please read my posts, esp. the one about the recall.

If you say COME to your dog and he ignores you or stands there, that is what you have just taught him to do when he hears the word come.

You will get a better understanding of how to help your dog learn to come when called if you will read the recall post.

You might also gain some more understanding of how to shape behaviors from reading this website. One of my favorites.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/index.htm

To those who are flaming me for suggesting debarking, I'd appreciate it if you did not get personal. Dogs are not people, and they don't react to things as people do. Debarked dogs do not miss the bark. According to them they still have it.

[CathyBogart]

BronxsBower, it sounds like you're keeping yourself informed and not just trying to take the "easy way out". The clerk at the store had no right to act that way towards you. Opinions can be stated without being rude or demeaning. It sounds like with consistent work (and maybe a training tool to help with the barking) he'll be the perfect pup.

As for the neuter, I was otld that it takes a few weeks for the hormones to catch on to the fact that there's nothing there anymore. My parents' dog Wilbur acted like he was unnertered until about 2 weeks after the surgery, when he finally started to settle down.

[Bronx'sBower]

Well it's been a great couple of days! Bower is beginning to know who is boss and thats great-but I have to remember to be the boss in ALL aspects of his life. Right now I am trying to master only a couple things at a time since we already fell off the wagon once. So the last couple days he has remastered "come" command but I am a little confused. He does really well in the back yard when I tell him come but I at some point would like to walk him without a leash (a long way away from that I know) but most importantly I would like him to be able to enjoy our front yard as much as he does the back, he just likes the neighbors too and I don't want him running over there. How do I train him not to leave the yard? With the same "come" command and treats?
As for his barking, he has calmed down a lot but most importantly he has learned he doesn't get any satisfaction in barking and that it doesn't do anything for him, except a trip to his crate every so often. Slowly he is catching on, and for that I am so excited.
I am also working on giving him "his job" before he can play or eat. When we play catch I make him sit before throwing the ball-sometimes he gets impatient but its going to take time. For daddy he will sit and wait and look at the ball, and only once it's thrown will he get up and get it. Now it's my turn to master this but he is such a smart dog that I know it will all work out.
Overall I know its going to take more time but if I knew it would be this easy (using that word loosely) I don't think I would have given up so easily. I think he is going to be a great dog and is going to do really well in obedience classes. The reason I am waiting ( I noticed someone said I should be able to get him in earlier) is because of the trainers-a few places I called acted like they had no time to talk to me or answer my questions and concerns. If they can't give me the attention and information I need prior to a class, what makes me think they can do it during the class? I found a good trainer, the only good trainer that I spoke with, and the only available classes don't start until September. I am not as desperate as I was a few days ago, we are beginning to see the light

[GreyhoundGirl]

Uhhh. I'm no real expert, but...

"When Bower barks I will let him out, check his food and water, play but sometimes none of these are what he wants."

He might just be doing it for attention. If you do those things when he barks, to him it will be bark + mommie = play time.

I too agree with NOT DEBARKING, what a cruel thing to do. Here they are ( in my town ) after everyone who crates their dog ( . )When some people are having painfull, unnessesairy surgery done just to avoid training ! That's just wrong ! I had no idea that was still being done !

I also agree with why people would sell products they don't approve of. Some people thing they know everything. ( like that person that started attacking me as to why my Boxer was so skinny ) I also agree with avoiding this store, and telling all friends to avoid it too. ( my moms friend is boycotting Orange Julius. ( because they charged me full price when the sign said 1/2 price )

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Both my boys have the citronella collars and there is a distinct improvement. My advice would be to use the "quiet" command at the same time so you can dispense of the collars eventually

[RedyreRotties]

Some breeds bark a LOT.

Shelties
Samoyeds
Collies
Poodles
Siberians

The list goes on and on. Many if not MOST of the people who keep, train and show these breeds debark them.

IMO it is MUCH kinder to allow the dog the joy of using his voice, even if it's much softer than it used to be, rather than yelling at the dog, spraying in the face with water, using citronella or shock collars, etc etc etc

I don't understand how subjecting a dog to a lifetime of enforced silence combined with unpleasant corrections is less harsh than a couple days of discomfort and then a softer voice so everyone can be happy.

I view debarking the same way I do removal of dew claws, spay/neuter, tail docking, ear cropping, etc etc etc. To me, it gives the dog the freedom to bark joyfully whenever he wishes, without annoyance to the humans around him.

DISCLAIMER: The above is nothing more than my own personal opinion. Many may disagree, and if done without personal attack, feel free to do so. This opinion will not cause you to lose weight, stop smoking, or obey the speed limit. Follow all instructions carefully. Do not use while bathing or sleeping. All rights reserved. Your results and mileage may vary.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

debark them.

Do people really do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My two do bark a lot but its down to me to let them know when they can or can't woof

[Aurie]

I know many people who have debarked their shelties. It is something that is very common on the show circuit. It sounds awful. But it is no more awful then the once feared pinch collars. Dogs stay happy because they can bark til their hearts content.

But the effects do vary, some will be reduced to a whisper, others it is a barely audible change. I have never needed to have this done with my dogs. I don't have enough dogs to make combined barking a problem nor have I had a dog that would bark all day everyday and never take a breath.

I do not think it is easy to find a vet who will preform the procedure unless you are in an area that has a call for this service. But I am not certain about this.

Surgery is never a first approach to solving something that can be done through training. However, some dogs were geneticallly created to bark. If someone just has to have that sheltie/collie etc and they live in an apartment and nothing else has worked, would you rather them debark the dog or take it to the shelter?

No not the first or even the second solution that any trainer would suggest. But it is a solution and a humane one. From what I have been told and how it was described to me, it is probably the least traumatic of any cosmetic type surgery on a dog.