Horrible experience @ pet store...

[Bronx'sBower]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and understanding...I am glad to know I am not as bad as the girl (who by the way didn't even look like she was out of high school) suggested. Someone pointed out maybe I could read some books...I have read quite a few mostly by Barbara Woodhouse but a more recent book is called "The Latchkey Dog". The Woodhouse books are a little out dated and I don't even know if some of the methods she talked about are used any longer. As for the last book I mentioned, it was a great book. It was like a guide, the most important part I remembered was that dogs bark for a reason not just to bark-usually (common sense really) but after we have exhausted all remedies he continues to bark. It isn't all the time but mostly when he gets riled up. It taught me and DH how to be the Alphas but it's almost like Bower chose who he thought Alpha should be, daddy. I am going to look at the links posted above and see if they can help me any. It makes no sense to me that when I worked and he went with me to work, he knew I was in charge but ever since I stopped working and staying home with him, he acts like this. Again it isn't all the time....Thanks again for all your support....and in regards to the reporting-I am definately contacting the company itself, it isn't like it's not a well known store (I know its michigan wide, not sure about nationwide), it just happens to be the only pet store in our city.

Also I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on the best ways to gain control, some don't like shock collars and some do....to each his own I think but for someone to tell me I am "an inhumane person" is absurd. Maybe a shock collar is the best idea, for some, I just don't know if it would help my situation or make it worse.

[RedyreRotties]

You want to be very careful with any muzzle that restricts the opening of the mouth. The danger of heatstroke is very real.

And yes, you are paying now for not going to puppy class early. Better late than never.

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

this is one of my all time favorite links about how to be the pack leader for your dog.

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

Dogs do not think like people, and you cannot raise a dog as you would a child. You are likely sending this dog a lot of mixed messages he can't figure out.

[bckrazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it.

D: ugh. I hope I read that wrong! I know you've given great advice, Redyre, but that is seriously a drastic measure, no? A painful and invasive surgery should be the last resort, as should muzzles, IMO.

Fozzie started developing barkiness, as is the tendancy of his breeds, and it just takes time & consistency to stop the behavior. He doesn't get any sort of reward for barking, and he completely stops with a stern "shhh", and he's only 5 months old. Puppy classes are great for socializing and practicing basic Obedience with distractions, but to be honest a l l of that info is available on the internet (http://4pawsu.com/articles.htmp has a lot of good pointers) and in books, so that shouldn't be to blame for behavioral issues. It sounds like the biggest factor in this is that the puppy does not respect the OP, and he's most likely using barking and jumping as means to demand attention from her. So, start at the root of the problem and work on that using NILIF & frequent training sessions at home. If it is difficult for you, find a good behaviorist, as you can get an appointment much sooner than September for a pretty affordable price, just to get one-on-one advice.

[dukedogsmom]

If it's a big chain of stores, you can get good results here:
www.planetfeedback.com
It's a great place to make sure the proper people see what's happening with their businesses. I've had good results and I've written more positive than negative letters.

I would have been fuming, were I you and would have talked to the manager right away. And I surely don't know how a shock collar is more humane.

[critter crazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!

[buttercup132]

You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!

Exactly and dogs neeed to bark its what dogs do.
If you dont want to deal with a dog barking get a hampster or something that dosent make noise...

(That wasnt directed to you Bowser's mom)

[RedyreRotties]

I happen to disagree that debarking is cruel.

I think correcting a dog all the time for barking is worse than a brief non invasive procedure to eliminate the annoyance of barking. If barking is such an issue that a muzzle is being considered, then I would consider eliminating the barking all together.

The de barked dogs get NO less pleasure from barking. They just don't make the noise.

To the OP: Please read my posts, esp. the one about the recall.

If you say COME to your dog and he ignores you or stands there, that is what you have just taught him to do when he hears the word come.

You will get a better understanding of how to help your dog learn to come when called if you will read the recall post.

You might also gain some more understanding of how to shape behaviors from reading this website. One of my favorites.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/index.htm

To those who are flaming me for suggesting debarking, I'd appreciate it if you did not get personal. Dogs are not people, and they don't react to things as people do. Debarked dogs do not miss the bark. According to them they still have it.

[CathyBogart]

BronxsBower, it sounds like you're keeping yourself informed and not just trying to take the "easy way out". The clerk at the store had no right to act that way towards you. Opinions can be stated without being rude or demeaning. It sounds like with consistent work (and maybe a training tool to help with the barking) he'll be the perfect pup.

As for the neuter, I was otld that it takes a few weeks for the hormones to catch on to the fact that there's nothing there anymore. My parents' dog Wilbur acted like he was unnertered until about 2 weeks after the surgery, when he finally started to settle down.

[Bronx'sBower]

Well it's been a great couple of days! Bower is beginning to know who is boss and thats great-but I have to remember to be the boss in ALL aspects of his life. Right now I am trying to master only a couple things at a time since we already fell off the wagon once. So the last couple days he has remastered "come" command but I am a little confused. He does really well in the back yard when I tell him come but I at some point would like to walk him without a leash (a long way away from that I know) but most importantly I would like him to be able to enjoy our front yard as much as he does the back, he just likes the neighbors too and I don't want him running over there. How do I train him not to leave the yard? With the same "come" command and treats?
As for his barking, he has calmed down a lot but most importantly he has learned he doesn't get any satisfaction in barking and that it doesn't do anything for him, except a trip to his crate every so often. Slowly he is catching on, and for that I am so excited.
I am also working on giving him "his job" before he can play or eat. When we play catch I make him sit before throwing the ball-sometimes he gets impatient but its going to take time. For daddy he will sit and wait and look at the ball, and only once it's thrown will he get up and get it. Now it's my turn to master this but he is such a smart dog that I know it will all work out.
Overall I know its going to take more time but if I knew it would be this easy (using that word loosely) I don't think I would have given up so easily. I think he is going to be a great dog and is going to do really well in obedience classes. The reason I am waiting ( I noticed someone said I should be able to get him in earlier) is because of the trainers-a few places I called acted like they had no time to talk to me or answer my questions and concerns. If they can't give me the attention and information I need prior to a class, what makes me think they can do it during the class? I found a good trainer, the only good trainer that I spoke with, and the only available classes don't start until September. I am not as desperate as I was a few days ago, we are beginning to see the light

[GreyhoundGirl]

Uhhh. I'm no real expert, but...

"When Bower barks I will let him out, check his food and water, play but sometimes none of these are what he wants."

He might just be doing it for attention. If you do those things when he barks, to him it will be bark + mommie = play time.

I too agree with NOT DEBARKING, what a cruel thing to do. Here they are ( in my town ) after everyone who crates their dog ( . )When some people are having painfull, unnessesairy surgery done just to avoid training ! That's just wrong ! I had no idea that was still being done !

I also agree with why people would sell products they don't approve of. Some people thing they know everything. ( like that person that started attacking me as to why my Boxer was so skinny ) I also agree with avoiding this store, and telling all friends to avoid it too. ( my moms friend is boycotting Orange Julius. ( because they charged me full price when the sign said 1/2 price )

[lizbud]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

I view debarking the same way I do removal of dew claws, spay/neuter, tail docking, ear cropping, etc etc etc. To me, it gives the dog the freedom to bark joyfully whenever he wishes, without annoyance to the humans around him.

I can't believe you are being serious about this. Someone just
comes from out of the blue & says they are a dog trainer & what they say
is true. Who the heck are you anyway?

I don't know any legitimate Dog Trainer who has the time to fritter away
their hours posting on a Pet site.

[Bronx'sBower]

As I am the one that began this thread I have tried very hard to ignore everyones bashing...it's getting very hard when people keep beating a dead horse (so to speak)...we all understand Red has her beliefs and reasons but that doesn't make her less of a person. Us PTers need to respect other peoples opinions-not ridicule for them, because all in all it isn't our place to pass the judgement.

[K9soul]

I think if people want to debate a controversial issue a different thread should be started about it in the Doghouse. Since Bronx'sBower is not interested in debarking the debate is really not relevant in this thread and I too think it's a shame people have to get so personal and insulting.

Bronx'sBower, glad to hear that the barking problem is improving. It sounds like you're taking the right steps. The moral of this whole thing seems to be people can be kinder and more polite with their opinions rather than bashing and offensive such as this checkout lady did at the pet store. It makes a person feel defensive and like they are being judged personally. I have no doubt that every single person who has posted here loves their dogs and would never want to do something they felt was cruel.

[Bronx'sBower]

Thanks K9Soul-I dont think I could have said it better....

Also thanks to the previous writer for looking up "The Husher"....the only muzzle I would ever consider is this one as it does allow panting, drinking and eating. The only thing it does is weaken the muscles in the mouth so they don't want to bark as much...In a way however I am glad the clerk made me so angry that I didn't buy the muzzle-Bower really is doing much better but again as I have said it's going to take time....time and patience are a virtue Have a great weekend all you wonderful PTer's!!!