Iilo, that is the impression I am under as well. Also, a group placing dog that places over another breed will get more or less points depening on how many points the dog it beat had. Atleast that is how it work in Canada.

What if you have an awsome dog just doesn't like to show but loves to work?
That's a good point -- that's why Visa doesn't have her CH yet. After the experience with the handler we've only done a sanction match, and judging by her behaviour there, she still wasn't ready for another point show. Because she is competing in agility now and can do both agility and conformation in one show, we won't have any more issues, thankfully (She doesn't love show atmosphere, but when there is agility involved... ). But that is why Visa took the year off --- if she backs off the judge, she can be disqualified, and then we wouldn't be able to particpate in ANY CKC events. Why corrupt our sporting career because one lousy show? I know my dog has a gorgeous conformation and I know she will get her CH when she is ready.

My friend and I were on the topic of breeding unshown dogs. She grew up breeding shelties. Her mother had several females she called "brood bitches;" Dogs that would never make it in the showring but that produced amazing puppies. We have to remember that it isn't just the dog going into the puppies -- it's the line.

But is one ugly dog out of a beautiful litter from beautiful parents considered a genetic weakness that shouldn't be bred from? Or a fluke that may produce dogs as wonderful as it's littermates and it's parents. I often think --- I wouldn't breed a dog with excellent hips out of a litter of fairs. But I would breed a dog with fair hips out of a litter of excellents. Some people think that the one fair dog is just a fluke that can produce dogs with excellent hips like it's littermates. Others think that the excellent dog out of the fair litter has surpassed genetic weaknesses and should be bred from to further improve that line. I am unsure, but I think I'd rather breed a conformationally incorrect dog out of a litter of correct ones, than a correct dog out of a litter of incorrect ones. I think health and conformation go both ways.