Desperate plea for help

[buckner]

Did the vet actually test her urine or are you just assuming she's being a queen bee? The stress of her human dying and being relocated to a new home could be enought to bring on a major UTI or bout with crystals.

She might also not like the litter you're using. Is it the same thing your grandmom used? Are you sure? Some cats are very fussy.

How many litterboxes are around? With 6 cats, you need at least 7 boxes. I don't care that you said they are clean... to YOU they are clean, but to hershe can still smell where 5 other cats went, and she might want a box all her own where she can pee in one, poo in another. I have 5 cats and 7 lkitterboxes and those additional boxes made a HUGE difference on Allen peeing in the wrong place. Also make sure you have them spread throughout the hosue -- one upstairs, one downstairs, etc.

Also, have you tried different litter levels? Some cats like a lot of litter while other like just a little bit.

I agree with Donna too about it being in a high traffic area. The most used boxes in my hosue are ones that are secluded and hidden from human eyes.

No, the vet did not test her urine. But, she is the queen-be of the cats. She's not liked by the other cats because she goes around and randomly smacks whichever cats she wants - she starts it, and the cats don't like her for it. And if the other cats come near her, she'll smack them as if she's in charge. She's always done this; with my grandmother and here. However, I don't see how her having an UTI is an excuse for not using the potty correctly.

Yep, the litter is the same stuff. Exact same stuff. She made the move fine, and was using the litterbox just fine for a couple of months. And then she just stopped and refused.

We don't have any areas for 7 litterboxes. We only had 3 areas (my bathroom, the downstairs bathroom, and my bedroom) and then when we noticed her going in the living room on a regular basis, we put one in there. The living room is not a room anyone uses - it's where a couple of cats sleep, including Jill, every now and then. But we humans don't use the living room. No one ever goes in there, unless we're cleaning out the box. So, we have 4 litterboxes. I'd get more, but we don't have any areas for them.

Believe it or not, we have different levels of litter in the boxes. But, that's due to Jessie and Jake liking to get in the box and just randomly scoop area and litter flying everywhere. And we try to clean it up, so that makes the levels vary. And depending on who refills the boxes (my dad or myself) it'll change.


I honestly think it's just Jill being stubborn, but I don't know how to break her from it. But, having her ruin our carpet is not something I'm willing to let her do.

[Catty1]

A UTI - urinary tract infection - can make cats (or humans) feel like they have to "go" RIGHT THIS MINUTE. And they do...Jill, if she has one, might just poop at the same time.

You can try Feliway to calm her, and Nature's Miracle to completely deodorize the area.

There are people here on PT who know really good animal behaviourists.

Jill sounds like she might be happiest as an only cat. Maybe someone here can help find a home for her.

hugs
Catty1

[emily_the_spoiled]

I Know that shew is the queen bee, but you should have her urine checked (just to make sure she doesn't have an infection).

Once that is ruled out there are some other things you can try like Feliaway, Rescue remedy, or even the amitriptyline ear cream. These things might also calm her down so that she isn't as aggressive with the other cats...

[mruffruff]

Maybe you could squeeze a litter box or two behind the sofa or a chair. It could make all the difference.

[Tora Oni]

Cats are solitary creature Jill maybe the type of cat that is unadapteable to that kind of enviroment.

[catnapper]

A UTI IS a perfect reason for cats not using the litterbox properly. Cats often reason that their pain comes from the litterbox. They try peeing elsewhere thinking that if they pee someone else their pain will go away. When it does not, they pee more inappropriately. If you've ever had a bladder infection yourself, you KNOW the burning and pain they are feeling. My daughter gets bladder infections and she gets knocked through a loop.... a poor cat can't tell you they're sick. AND cats hide illness VERY well because in the wild that would make them susceptabe to predators.

When she pees, is it little pee spots everywhere or one big pee? Both? Little pee spots signify that she has the urge to go but either can't because she's got large crystals blocking the exit, or she might think she has to pee because of all the discomfort she's feeling. My Pouncer would do dribbles and brads all day long and the finally one HUGE pee at night. I can only imagine the relief he felt to finally pee a big pee.

The urine check test is only $30 (give or take) and well worth every penny if it reveals an infection or problem. It it comes out normal, then you know you're dealing with a behavioral peer.

Cats are so sensitive to change. Just because she swatted at everyone then and now doesn't mean she's not stressed. Guess who does the swatting and starts fights around here? Pouncer, my very own little sickie boy. He has been sick off and on for almost a year now.

Also-- no matter how small your house, litterboxes can be hidden in a hundred places. I have 2 in my office, one right under my desk that NOBODY ever notices. Use a little imagination and you can find at least 4 more hidey holes for litterboxes.

One last thing: don't ask for help then ignore the suggestions. Don't tell me she's not been tested for UTI and that she doesn't need to be tested because she's Queen-bee. We have a wealth of knowledge and experience here. We will tell you why a cat might pee and try to help. But when someone offers an opinon and takes time to respond to your "Desperate Please for help" and you close your mind to the possibility that she's sick.... it makes us wonder how desperately you want a solution.

[Lizzie]

Many of us here have been at our wit's end trying to help a cat who pees and poops outside a litter box, so we do understand your frustration and misery.

As others have said, a UTI is a major reason for a cat to pee outside the box and since this behavior has lasted for months, she could be in very real distress if it is a UTI. Taking her back to the vet to check on this possibility and to discuss her problems with the vet is part of your agreement with your grandmother to take care of her cats. Illness of many kinds does affect the way a cat will or won't use a litter box. When my Artful Dodger developed renal failure, he stopped using the box and would only pee on the newspaper (over linoleum) around it.

It could be both medical and behavorial, it sounds like it to me, which means that at this point Jill is screaming at you for help. Cats can't talk to us, they can't go out for a drink to relieve their stress, and litter box misbehavior is a major way for them to communicate that they are upset. The fact that she is the dominant female should not be held against her, there are always dominant and submissive cats. What was her behavior like at your grandmother's? Did she dominate the other cats then? Was she destructive while she lived with your grandmother? Jill will sense that you dislike her and respond accordingly, just as we would respond in some way if we had to be around someone who disliked us. Jill can't be "broken" of her bad habits, she's not a dog or a horse, you have to understand why she is doing this and change things

Taking Jill to a shelter would be taking care of her in comparison with "kicking her outside". Since you wonder how you would feel if she didn't come back, it indicates to me that you wish this problem would just disappear, but I hope you'd feel pretty bad if you did open the door and never saw her again. That's not a promise kept.

Take her to the vet. If things don't work out, take her to a no-kill shelter.

[K & L]

I feel your frustration. Is there anyway to have an outdoor enclosure until you have more land?

[catmandu]

I Am So SOrry That You Are Having This Trouble With Jill.
I Wish I Could Help, But I Dont Honestly Know What I Would Do If A Found Cat Started Doing That.
I Am Praying That You Dont Have To Turn Her Into A Shelter.

[CagneyDog]

If you don't want to hear good advice from people who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT - DON'T ASK!!!!

She's trying her best guys, there's no need for comments like that.

I don't know anything about cats, but I wish you the best of luck. It must be frustrating.
{{{hugs}}}

[catnapper]

I'm sorry you feel jumped on. We're really just trying to help

This morning, I woke up to finding pee on the kitchen counter, right on top of all the baby bibs stored in a basket. Last night, someone peed on the table in the front room, mere inches away from the litterbox. Someone is sick and trying to tell me that (thats someone is almost assuredly Pouncer). I called the vet and have an appointment for Tuesday (being a holiday weekend and all, thats the first appointment) I can pretty much tell you what my weekend is going to be: finding pee in places it isn't supposed to be. I know WHY he pees, so I'm a lot more tolerant. I know I wouldn't be so lax if he peed for no apparent reason. He started to show signs of being sick last week, but I let it go as behavioral since my son came home from college last week and he got upset at the change in flow around here. I've been watching his behavior like a hawk and decided that he's sick... but I want the vet to confirm it before I start him on Clavimox.

In my experience, Pouncer does not change his cranky ways when he's sick. He still torments Abby and wrestles with Allen. He still TRIES to play with Flutter (she will play to a point then he gets too rough and scares her off ) All in all, his hissy highness is the same as when he's not sick. Please look up my initial threads about him being sick back last summer/fall; you'll see that the thing that confused me the most was that he was 100% normal in every way, except the pee thing. Turns out he was VERY sick and at one point close to being completely blocked. Luckily, he passed the stone that was blocking him. It took THREE MONTHS of antibiotics and steroids to finally clear up the cystitis. And here we are, him sick again.

I'm only trying to help you see that just because she's acting the same doesn't mean it couldn't be a medical issue. Please, I speak from experience here. I SWORE that he was just being a hissy brat, until it was blatantly obvious that he was sick.

And regarding litterboes: My 7th litterbox is on the 3rd floor just outside my daughter's room tucked between the radiator and a storage cabinet. I scoop that once a week, but its there because before it was there, someone thought it was perfectly acceptable to pee on her bed. As soon as I put the box there, no more pee. Its only used two or three times a week -- always pee, never poo. Its not pretty (I'll readily admit that) but I prefer to look at an ugly litterbox than wash the smae sheets and comforter 3 times a week.

I really do wish you luck, but I would make sure that she has no health issues before assuming its behavioral. You'll be spinning your wheels if it is health because your remedies aren't geared towards the problem.

[Dixie Belle]

I have owned many cats in my life, so I will put in my 2 cents worth. I agree that taking her to the vet is a good idea. Extra attention might help. But I had a cat that was outdoors only growing up. As she got older, we started letting her in on cold nights, and when she ate. She didn't like the litter box either. Why? Because she was use to dirt. Started filling the litter box with good old dirt from outside, and she used it. You have to change it every day because of the smell, but maybe worth a shot?

I really hope you can get this problem solved. I know how frustrating it is.

[buckner]

I feel your frustration. Is there anyway to have an outdoor enclosure until you have more land?

I understand your question, but what kind of outdoor enclosures are you talking about? Cats can obviously jump over fences, so I don't think you're talking about that. I have a feeling that if I did let Jill outside, she would come back - she's an intelligent cat, and she knows where her food is. I just wish we had more land, and fewer people driving down the street. The cars are what bothers me - I don't think she'd get hit, but you never know. The set up at my grandmother's house was perfect, because she had a larger amount of land, and all of her neighbors knew about her cats and it didn't bother them at all. And, she had glass pane doors and tons of windows she was always looking out, in case a cat wanted inside. We have wood doors, so we wouldn't really know when there was a cat waiting to come back inside.

Maybe if you could suggest some kind of outdoor enclosure, I could look into it.

[Lizzie]

That's good input, about Jill being an indoor/outdoor cat previously. Having brought in adult ferals who had never used a litter box before, though, my experience is that after a few days of peeing on the floor, and my dabbing the pee from there into the box, they used the box well. So her reason for not using the box shouldn't be simply that she prefers an outdoor litterbox. If you are dealing only with a behavior problem, she could be making a statement that she is angry about being cooped up and it may well have nothing to do with whether or not she likes using a litter box. She is, obviously, very upset, as are you and so you are both in a difficult situation. She's lost her guardian, her home, and her outdoor privileges, and she's living with people who wish she wasn't there. You are living with an angry cat that is making your home smell bad and creating a lot of extra work.

Can you fence off an area outside for her to use? Are the regulations simply that she is not free to roam? I know, more expense for you! A few people o this forum have created outside, enclosed runs for their cats so hopefully they can help. Perhaps you can start a thread asking for ideas?

What were your feelings towards Jill when she lived with your grandmother? Did you rather dislike her then? I'm wondering if you tried to bond with her, to spend time with her, to give her a new guardian. I know very well that it's difficult to spend quality time with a bad-tempered cat that is causing trouble instead of those whose company you enjoy, but creating a better emotional atmosphere between you might help.

There have been a few times when I've been totally and adamantly convinced that a cat with litter box problems is doing so for purely behavorial reasons, based on past experience with them, and then found out that they did have a UTI. It could be both, as it has been with some of mine.

[K & L]

I understand your question, but what kind of outdoor enclosures are you talking about? Cats can obviously jump over fences, so I don't think you're talking about that. I have a feeling that if I did let Jill outside, she would come back - she's an intelligent cat, and she knows where her food is. I just wish we had more land, and fewer people driving down the street. The cars are what bothers me - I don't think she'd get hit, but you never know. The set up at my grandmother's house was perfect, because she had a larger amount of land, and all of her neighbors knew about her cats and it didn't bother them at all. And, she had glass pane doors and tons of windows she was always looking out, in case a cat wanted inside. We have wood doors, so we wouldn't really know when there was a cat waiting to come back inside.

Maybe if you could suggest some kind of outdoor enclosure, I could look into it.

Here's some links that might help and a photo of ours. There are ones that you can attach to you home and ones that are free standing. I realize how you're feeling since I've been going through this myself with one cat we bottle raised. I finally had to seclude him to the garage and cat run that we have. I could not tolerate all the urine throughout my house. Believe me I'm a patient woman, but I finally lost it. It was becoming destructive and tiring. I would come home daily cleaning for 1 - 2 hours everywhere he had sprayed. I commend you for even adhering to the promise you made your Grandmother. I hope my grandchildren will respect me enough to even consider making me a promise.

It just might come to the time you have to let her do at your place what she did at your Grandmother's.

Here's some links and hopefully they help you some:

http://www.cat-world.com.au/cat-worldenclosures.htm
http://www.animalnetwork.com/cats/enclosure.asp
http://www.petplace.com/cats/selecti.../enclosure.asp

http://shopping.yahoo.com/search/;_y...tion=1&sp=pall

Here's ours:


It is a good idea to rule out a medical problem. We did this and found out it is behavorial. This way at least you know which one you're dealing with and can then start working on ways to deal with the behavioral issue.