Desperate plea for help

[moosmom]

Is the litterbox in a place where there's alot of foot traffic. By that, I mean, is it in a place where they don't have any privacy and humans are walking by? THAT can also a problem. If it is, try moving the box in a place that doesn't have any activity.

[catnapper]

Did the vet actually test her urine or are you just assuming she's being a queen bee? The stress of her human dying and being relocated to a new home could be enought to bring on a major UTI or bout with crystals.

She might also not like the litter you're using. Is it the same thing your grandmom used? Are you sure? Some cats are very fussy.

How many litterboxes are around? With 6 cats, you need at least 7 boxes. I don't care that you said they are clean... to YOU they are clean, but to hershe can still smell where 5 other cats went, and she might want a box all her own where she can pee in one, poo in another. I have 5 cats and 7 lkitterboxes and those additional boxes made a HUGE difference on Allen peeing in the wrong place. Also make sure you have them spread throughout the hosue -- one upstairs, one downstairs, etc.

Also, have you tried different litter levels? Some cats like a lot of litter while other like just a little bit.

I agree with Donna too about it being in a high traffic area. The most used boxes in my hosue are ones that are secluded and hidden from human eyes.

[buckner]

Did the vet actually test her urine or are you just assuming she's being a queen bee? The stress of her human dying and being relocated to a new home could be enought to bring on a major UTI or bout with crystals.

She might also not like the litter you're using. Is it the same thing your grandmom used? Are you sure? Some cats are very fussy.

How many litterboxes are around? With 6 cats, you need at least 7 boxes. I don't care that you said they are clean... to YOU they are clean, but to hershe can still smell where 5 other cats went, and she might want a box all her own where she can pee in one, poo in another. I have 5 cats and 7 lkitterboxes and those additional boxes made a HUGE difference on Allen peeing in the wrong place. Also make sure you have them spread throughout the hosue -- one upstairs, one downstairs, etc.

Also, have you tried different litter levels? Some cats like a lot of litter while other like just a little bit.

I agree with Donna too about it being in a high traffic area. The most used boxes in my hosue are ones that are secluded and hidden from human eyes.

No, the vet did not test her urine. But, she is the queen-be of the cats. She's not liked by the other cats because she goes around and randomly smacks whichever cats she wants - she starts it, and the cats don't like her for it. And if the other cats come near her, she'll smack them as if she's in charge. She's always done this; with my grandmother and here. However, I don't see how her having an UTI is an excuse for not using the potty correctly.

Yep, the litter is the same stuff. Exact same stuff. She made the move fine, and was using the litterbox just fine for a couple of months. And then she just stopped and refused.

We don't have any areas for 7 litterboxes. We only had 3 areas (my bathroom, the downstairs bathroom, and my bedroom) and then when we noticed her going in the living room on a regular basis, we put one in there. The living room is not a room anyone uses - it's where a couple of cats sleep, including Jill, every now and then. But we humans don't use the living room. No one ever goes in there, unless we're cleaning out the box. So, we have 4 litterboxes. I'd get more, but we don't have any areas for them.

Believe it or not, we have different levels of litter in the boxes. But, that's due to Jessie and Jake liking to get in the box and just randomly scoop area and litter flying everywhere. And we try to clean it up, so that makes the levels vary. And depending on who refills the boxes (my dad or myself) it'll change.


I honestly think it's just Jill being stubborn, but I don't know how to break her from it. But, having her ruin our carpet is not something I'm willing to let her do.

[Catty1]

A UTI - urinary tract infection - can make cats (or humans) feel like they have to "go" RIGHT THIS MINUTE. And they do...Jill, if she has one, might just poop at the same time.

You can try Feliway to calm her, and Nature's Miracle to completely deodorize the area.

There are people here on PT who know really good animal behaviourists.

Jill sounds like she might be happiest as an only cat. Maybe someone here can help find a home for her.

hugs
Catty1

[emily_the_spoiled]

I Know that shew is the queen bee, but you should have her urine checked (just to make sure she doesn't have an infection).

Once that is ruled out there are some other things you can try like Feliaway, Rescue remedy, or even the amitriptyline ear cream. These things might also calm her down so that she isn't as aggressive with the other cats...

[mruffruff]

Maybe you could squeeze a litter box or two behind the sofa or a chair. It could make all the difference.

[Tora Oni]

Cats are solitary creature Jill maybe the type of cat that is unadapteable to that kind of enviroment.

[catnapper]

A UTI IS a perfect reason for cats not using the litterbox properly. Cats often reason that their pain comes from the litterbox. They try peeing elsewhere thinking that if they pee someone else their pain will go away. When it does not, they pee more inappropriately. If you've ever had a bladder infection yourself, you KNOW the burning and pain they are feeling. My daughter gets bladder infections and she gets knocked through a loop.... a poor cat can't tell you they're sick. AND cats hide illness VERY well because in the wild that would make them susceptabe to predators.

When she pees, is it little pee spots everywhere or one big pee? Both? Little pee spots signify that she has the urge to go but either can't because she's got large crystals blocking the exit, or she might think she has to pee because of all the discomfort she's feeling. My Pouncer would do dribbles and brads all day long and the finally one HUGE pee at night. I can only imagine the relief he felt to finally pee a big pee.

The urine check test is only $30 (give or take) and well worth every penny if it reveals an infection or problem. It it comes out normal, then you know you're dealing with a behavioral peer.

Cats are so sensitive to change. Just because she swatted at everyone then and now doesn't mean she's not stressed. Guess who does the swatting and starts fights around here? Pouncer, my very own little sickie boy. He has been sick off and on for almost a year now.

Also-- no matter how small your house, litterboxes can be hidden in a hundred places. I have 2 in my office, one right under my desk that NOBODY ever notices. Use a little imagination and you can find at least 4 more hidey holes for litterboxes.

One last thing: don't ask for help then ignore the suggestions. Don't tell me she's not been tested for UTI and that she doesn't need to be tested because she's Queen-bee. We have a wealth of knowledge and experience here. We will tell you why a cat might pee and try to help. But when someone offers an opinon and takes time to respond to your "Desperate Please for help" and you close your mind to the possibility that she's sick.... it makes us wonder how desperately you want a solution.

[Lizzie]

Many of us here have been at our wit's end trying to help a cat who pees and poops outside a litter box, so we do understand your frustration and misery.

As others have said, a UTI is a major reason for a cat to pee outside the box and since this behavior has lasted for months, she could be in very real distress if it is a UTI. Taking her back to the vet to check on this possibility and to discuss her problems with the vet is part of your agreement with your grandmother to take care of her cats. Illness of many kinds does affect the way a cat will or won't use a litter box. When my Artful Dodger developed renal failure, he stopped using the box and would only pee on the newspaper (over linoleum) around it.

It could be both medical and behavorial, it sounds like it to me, which means that at this point Jill is screaming at you for help. Cats can't talk to us, they can't go out for a drink to relieve their stress, and litter box misbehavior is a major way for them to communicate that they are upset. The fact that she is the dominant female should not be held against her, there are always dominant and submissive cats. What was her behavior like at your grandmother's? Did she dominate the other cats then? Was she destructive while she lived with your grandmother? Jill will sense that you dislike her and respond accordingly, just as we would respond in some way if we had to be around someone who disliked us. Jill can't be "broken" of her bad habits, she's not a dog or a horse, you have to understand why she is doing this and change things

Taking Jill to a shelter would be taking care of her in comparison with "kicking her outside". Since you wonder how you would feel if she didn't come back, it indicates to me that you wish this problem would just disappear, but I hope you'd feel pretty bad if you did open the door and never saw her again. That's not a promise kept.

Take her to the vet. If things don't work out, take her to a no-kill shelter.

[K & L]

I feel your frustration. Is there anyway to have an outdoor enclosure until you have more land?

[buckner]

Great response Kim.

Buckner,

If you don't want to hear good advice from people who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT - DON'T ASK!!!!



Unless you have DVM after your name or are an animal behaviorist, get your damn cat to a vet and have her checked out!!! Tell the vet you want her urine tested for crystals. MAKE ROOM for more than just 3 litterboxes. How would YOU like to have a UTI and have no one help you??? UTI's are painful and can create worse problems.

It is YOUR responsibility to see that your cat's health is maintained and you're not doing that.

UGH!!!!! Stubborn?? Yeah right! If anyone is being stubborn, it's YOU!!!

It's people like you that make me want to stop coming to Pet Talk, one of my favourite forums ever. In all honesty, your comment made me burst into tears and I don't deserve it.

I came here for help, I didn't come here for you to scream at me and call me names. I'm a well respected member here at PT, and I take good care of my animals and always have. I don't need you to tell me otherwise, which is a baldface lie.

You're a 50-something year old woman, and you're acting like a 4 year old with your retaliation. That's not deserved either - I thought YOU of all people were better than that.


I never said that I wouldn't take Jill to vet, although it's not an option right now considering I don't have an appointment. I said I highly doubt it is a medical problem, for several reasons. Her behaviour hasn't really "changed" towards the cats since she's been here. She's always (ALWAYS) smacked around the other cats, and some of them just take it, and some fight back.

When she lived at my grandmother's, she could go in and out as she pleased. My grandmother lived in an area that was populated by strays, and that's what these cats were. Their mom was a feral cat, and these kittens (10 litters from the mama cat) were bred and raised at her house - and most of the kittens became very personable. Jill, Jack, and Callie were the last 3 kittens that my grandfather saw (and thought were beautiful) before he died, and my grandmother decided to have them spayed/neutered and have their shots, and then brought them inside, with her already existing 3-legged Trey, who was also a stray who showed up at her door many years ago with his back leg dangling. After Jill/Jack/Callie, the mama cat had another litter, and this litter was the one that Jessie and Jake were in. There were a couple of other cats, but my uncle took those to his farm. My grandmother soon brought in Jessie and Jake after she had them fixed and shots were given to them. She kept up their shots, and their vet visits, flea applications, etc etc. She took good care of them, and took extra precautions because they spent half of their time outside.

Jack, Jilll, Callie and sometimes Jake were the only ones to go outside at any major length of time. Jessie didn't want to, and Trey was always on a leash. So, my guess is that Jill did most of her business outside because she spent a lot of time outside. If she ever wanted out, she just sat at a door and cried, and my grandmother tended to them.

So, now that Jill is inside all of the time, my only guess was that she didn't like to use the litterbox (she liked to go outside and go potty) and now that she only has that option, she chooses to go somewhere else. What I'm trying to do is STOP this behaviour.

One of my friends suggested tin foil, but frankly, I don't have enough tin foil to cover our entire living room. So that's a no go, I think.

If I had more places to put the litterboxes, I would. But I've already lost my bathroom to one of them, what do you want me to do? Lose my bedroom to them by having 3 of them in here? My mom doesn't like the idea of having one in the living room, just because there's a reason that human bathrooms have their own private section of the house - we don't want to do our business in the middle of where we're sleeping and eating. But because we don't use the living room for anything, she's "okay" with it. The family room is a no go, and the kitchen is a no go (from the above reason, we wouldn't want to use the restroom where we eat or sleep or live). The two bathrooms already have one in them. My parents bathroom is far too small for it - and if we put one in there, no one would be able to shower. I can't shower in my bathroom because of the mess they make in there with the litter. My bedroom has one, my mom doesn't want one in her bedroom. So, I'm not trying to "ignore all of your suggestions", as catnapper put it, I'm merely stating that I don't know where else I CAN put a litterbox.

Speaking of having extras - they all seem to just go in 2 of the 4 anyways. Sometimes I go days without having to clean out some of the boxes.. but I understand that it's the fact that if they go at least once in a blue mood, it's worth it.


I appreciate the way you commented catnapper, K & L, catmandu, and Lizzie. You expressed your concern for Jill's wellbeing without being nasty about it, and that's all I expected - I didn't expect anyone to attack me for it.

moosmom, I can't tell you how many times I've bitten my tongue on this board when you've said something. It's not because of the "rules", it's because I was always taught to respect my elders, but I was also taught to not take any crap off of anybody. So if you have the audacity to treat me like a little kid who gets pets because they're pretty and then don't take care of them, then stop it right now, because I don't want to hear it. I took these 6 cats on without particularly "wanting them" - I'm not a cat person, but I'm doing the best I can. I could've taken them all to a shelter, but I decided it wasn't right because of my promise to my grandmother. I didn't ASK for these cats. My life has been turned upside down with these cats, and so has my dog's life. My family and my dog has allowed so much for these cats and we spend a lot of money on them, but we haven't complained yet, until now, when Jill is destroying our house by peeing and pooping everywhere. So don't even go there, Donna, I don't want to hear it.