Where do you stand?

**Edwina's Secretary** · 05-10-2006, 03:22 PM

Since this is America.....I will continue to believe there are many bigotted remarks being thrown around on this thread and you will continue to believe I am deluding myself.

Oh by the way.....dreaming of finding a female candidate for a traditionally male position is called outreach or affirmative action....not illegal.

But then....Rush Limbaugh probably doesn't mention that.

Truth, justice and the American way....one out of three isn't bad.....

I just made that up...honest.....

**BOBS DAD** · 05-10-2006, 03:35 PM

Truth, justice and the American way....one out of three isn't bad.....

That is a good one. I like it. I think it will stick!!!

Rush Limbaugh??? Now that's a crackup! What an idiot!!! NOW THERE'S YOUR BIGOT! I am not sure if you think I really ever listen to Rush Limbaugh (except when I want to hear what the ultra conservative, right winged bigots are thinking today). Any fair minded person can see right through the Rush Limabaugh's of the world. NO... I prefer Al Franken and his popularly titled book, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot"!!!

But back to one of my earlier posts and a comment you referenced. I did not say that my "grandparents" were born at home but rather "my father". He and his 9 siblings! I am not sure of the facts but I was under the impression that most folks were seeking medical assistance at that time in our country - whether it be a Doctor making housecalls or a visit to the hospital. BUT I AM NOT SURE. Even my mother and her siblings (Coalminers daughter) had a Doctor present. But again, not the point... Point is that they made their own way and their presence in America was no drain on the economy or healthcare - same as your grandparents.

ISN'T IT FUN TO AGREE TO DISAGREE... ONLY TO ULTIMATELY AGREE ON "MOST" THINGS!!!

**Edwina's Secretary** · 05-10-2006, 04:04 PM

I assume your grandmother gave birth to your father. I know that is the way it worked in my family!

I said....

my grandmother had her children at home by midwives

Perhaps I should have been more cleared and said delivered by midwife so as not to suggest created by the midwife....

According to my father's stories...poor families especially...only sought medical assistance in an emergency...which did not include childbirth. But, in any case, you paid cash. Or chickens. Medical insurance came later.

When I see people picking strawberries in the fields around here I struggle to think they are getting a free ride and not making their own way....

It is all too true that immigrants (as well as many others!) in this country had a rough time of it and social safety nets were pretty much nonexistent. Hurt at work....oh well! Unable to work because of age or disabled? That's what kids are for....to support you. No food?....there's the bread line.

I just don't know if we really want to use those good old days as guiding principles today.

**BOBS DAD** · 05-10-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I assume your grandmother gave birth to your father. I know that is the way it worked in my family!

I said.... Perhaps I should have been more cleared and said delivered by midwife so as not to suggest created by the midwife....

According to my father's stories...poor families especially...only sought medical assistance in an emergency...which did not include childbirth. But, in any case, you paid cash. Or chickens. Medical insurance came later.

When I see people picking strawberries in the fields around here I struggle to think they are getting a free ride and not making their own way....

It is all too true that immigrants (as well as many others!) in this country had a rough time of it and social safety nets were pretty much nonexistent. Hurt at work....oh well! Unable to work because of age or disabled? That's what kids are for....to support you. No food?....there's the bread line.

I just don't know if we really want to use those good old days as guiding principles today.

SORRY... missed that!!! Yes, you are corrrect. My grandmother did give birth to my father. At least that's the storyline... I wasn't actually there to witness the event you know!!!

**sparks19** · 06-28-2006, 04:59 PM

While I did not read this entire thread I am going to give my two cents.

The thing everyone needs to remember is that whether they are getting a free ride or busting their humps, illegal immigrants are just that... ILLEGAL. I don't think any special arrangments should be made for them. You wouldn't make any special arrangments for a local shoplifter would you? They willingly came into the country as an illegal immigrant. They made the choice. Now for them to stand up and demand respect and to be recognized? we don't give any other criminal respect or special treatment. and thats just what illegal immigrants are. Criminals.

I am a Canadian citizen and my husband is American. We had to live apart since we were married because we chose to do things legally. I could have come into the country as an illegal but we went through the process so that I could be a LEGAL resident. It's tough to go through but we did it. So can they.

**BOBS DAD** · 05-10-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary: MOFF....Debbie's post said immigrants who become citizens earn, on average $900.00....as a contrast to illegal immigrants earning $460.00. So that would be....naturalized citizens earn on average $900.00. That is about the national average for a family of four.

MOFF, you ae not seriously thinking that naturalized citizens earn a mere $900.00 a year, are you? Or am I just misunderstanding Edwina's post?

Could be... sometimes things get lost in translation. I was referencing Debbie's earlier post - where she mentioned that she read some figures about a jump in wage earning from an illegal to a legalized citizen. And in referencing her post, I said that it "sounded" plausible. "Sounded" is the operative word here, as neither Debbie (I don't believe) or I have any hard data to support this presumption. BUT, it only stands to reason that those who have the where-with-all and knowledge to realize their dream of citizenship have in fact tapped into the government programs for betterment through education and job training. An Immigrants' legal status opens the door to job-training and work-support programs. Indeed, eligibility for most government-sponsored programs is restricted to legal immigrants under federal law.

BUT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE... don't take anything your hear or read here at PT as Gospel. We are all just blabbering about subjects that most of us cannot claim expertise on. If you know how to use the Internet to connect to PT, then you certainly can research these subject yourself through "SEARCH ENGINES" and Keywords. Try to find government sponsored sites with no political agenda - straight statistics. Also look for Non Partisan Research Groups sites. Here is a good one for anyone interested: http://www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=310880

It is a Brief on "Immigrant Families and Workers: Facts and Perspectives" by the URBAN INSTITUTE ( a Non-Partisan Economic and Social Policy Research Organization). It is very interesting and more "reliable" than we pet lover's dribble here at PT! Not as much fun to read, a little dry and no "shots below the belt" - OUUCCHHH... but far more factual.

In fact, while I am at it. I recommend everyone utilize the Internet in their rearch when voting as well. IT IS AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN LEARN AND DISCOVER. When I was young and going to the polls, I used to againize over who was right, who was wrong, who's telling the truth and what records can I research to see who is most closely aligned to my own thinking and political philosophies. AND NOW... NOW... my answers are at my fingertips. It is truly amazing the breadth of knowledge and facts accessible on line. If a candidate says another voted for or against something "everytime" it came up. I can easily check that fact by checking voting records listed online at government sites and who voted for what. It is truly amazing how much people lie or stretch the truth!!!

That's enough rambling for now. More on that subject at a later date. Back to work... before they deport me!!!

**momoffuzzyfaces** · 05-12-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by BOBS DAD

MOFF, you ae not seriously thinking that naturalized citizens earn a mere $900.00 a year, are you? Or am I just misunderstanding Edwina's post?

No, I was freaking out because I thought it was said they were making $900 A WEEK!!!

**lizbud** · 05-12-2006, 06:45 PM

It's good to see this discussion continue because this problem does
not seem to be going away real soon.Bush is considering sending the
National Guard to the border states.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1956312

**momoffuzzyfaces** · 05-13-2006, 12:36 PM

Not to open up another can of worms, but I'd rather see the National Guard protecting our borders than getting killed in a another country.

**Lady's Human** · 05-13-2006, 02:50 PM

The reason that the National Guard is the force in question rather than the regular army is Posse Comitatus. This law prevents federal military forces from being used in a law enforcement role within the borders of the United States.

If anyone had any true intestinal fortitude (and this includes everyone on Capitol Hill, not just republicans or just democrats) they would revise Posse Comitatus and allow Federal Forces to be used on the border areas to protect the border. The excesses from the post-Civil War era are long since over, and like many other statutes that have gathered dust over the years need to be revised.

**RICHARD** · 05-10-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Since this is America.....

I am almost positive that America did not write the "long haired freaky people"/Signs song...

and you got to have a membership card to get inside, Uhhhh!

**Edwina's Secretary** · 05-10-2006, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by RICHARD

I am almost positive that America did not write the "long haired freaky people"/Signs song...

and you got to have a membership card to get inside, Uhhhh!

What do I know.....I'm delusional.....

**DIANESDOGS** · 05-10-2006, 10:59 PM

OK... so I haven't been around for a while. But this thread almost makes me laugh. Edwina, you say people have resorted to calling you names because they "don't have any argument". But it seems like you are the one who is lacking in substance or facts. I see a lot of opinions expressed in these posts and some real credible substance as well. It seems that if these opinions disagree with your own, then you attempt to suggest or imply that they are motivated by ignorance or bigotry. JMO.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 05-11-2006, 12:01 AM

Thank you DIANESDOG. I have tried NOT to get into name calling (I know how hurtful I find it) nor personal attacks.

Everyone has a right to an opinion and there is a difference between the person and the person's opinion.

Today I broke my own rule. I'll blame it on jetlag and delete the offensive statement.

**BOBS DAD** · 05-12-2006, 12:27 PM

WOW. I haven't checked in here in a while because I "checked out". I guess it's good that we (meaning mostly "me") are called into order once in a while. Thank you too Diane. I also apologize if I got out of line or came on too strong at any time. I will check my previous post and edit/delete any offensive commentary! God... I love this country!!!