Where do you stand?

[Husky_mom]

i had to make a statement here...........

I by no means support illegal immigration at all, if you wanna go there, DO IT RIGHT!! because of those people going illegal WE ALL take the blame and the hate from the country they "invade".......

I am wide aware that the mayority of immigrants that cross the border from Mexico ARE from Central America (Guatemala, El Salvador, etc, just to name examples) but there are also mexicans crossing illegally (i have a cousin that went that way and it makes me soooooo mad even more to have that in my family)

also it makes me very angry the way they "protest" in our national news thats all you see: protest about this, protest about that........and all became riots with violence and such i really hate my country for that, for having that kind of culture where they act like...........i really dont know what word to use except the a****** word............

as mentioned how do you ask for the same priviliges and treatment when you have no LEGAL RIGHT to them?? such a moronic idea

sometimes when asked if i would leave to live in TX or somewhere i always say YES!! (of course i´ll be furthar from my close family, but i wont miss my country, sorry to say that but i really mean that, and that because the kind of people that make us all be seen in a bad way)

arrgggg..........ok i´ll take a break since i´ve got more words than i can write right now so i´ll cool off and come back later..........

[Dixieland Dancer]

My son married a beautiful girl from Columbia almost 3 years ago while he was stationed in Okinawa, Japan as a marine. She came here for the wedding and we could not communicate because I spoke no spanish and she spoke no English. We did a lot of sign language (unofficial of course). Since then she has learned to speak very fluent English. My Spanish still is non existant.

They plan on living in the US when my sons tour of duty is over. She applied legally for Citizenship immediately after they were married. They were suppose to go to Hawaii this month to make it final (Closest American soil to Okinawa). My son received a letter stating her citizenship was being held up one more year and would only be granted then if he reinlisted for another year of service. He has already been in the service for 7 1/2 years and is ready to get out. I CONSIDER THIS BLACKMAIL on the part of the American government.

America is a melting pot for all nationalities provided they follow the correct channels. However, our laws are spelled out and they should not be altered by anyone (immigrants or government). One Nation, One Flag, One Citizenship!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

They plan on living in the US when my sons tour of duty is over. She applied legally for Citizenship immediately after they were married. They were suppose to go to Hawaii this month to make it final (Closest American soil to Okinawa). My son received a letter stating her citizenship was being held up one more year and would only be granted then if he reinlisted for another year of service. He has already been in the service for 7 1/2 years and is ready to get out. I CONSIDER THIS BLACKMAIL on the part of the American government.

BLACKMAIL was the first word that popped into my head too even before I got to you using it. Can you write any congress people about this??? With immagration being such a hot issue right now, it may help. Maybe CNN would like to air this or something?

[BOBS DAD]

What did any of us do to earn our civil/citizen rights....except be born in the right place?????

I don't know about you, but my grandparents came here legally! They did the "tough, dirty work" that ALL Immigrants do - because it was a job! Something they couldn't find in Croatia. BUT it was not the streets paved with gold they had heard about... it took tremendous hard work and a generation or two of menial work, long hard hours in the coal mines, factories and Steel Mills to get to where we are today.

They took what work they could get, paid their taxes and served in the military. They expected and got no special favors. They had to learn the language and exist in a complex foreign environment. My Grandmother had 11 children - all born at home with neighbors serving as midwives. One child died during childbirth. Why? Because they "had NO Health Insurance". My father and his brothers and sister went to "public" school initially speaking only Croatian. NO-ONE offered them any special attention. They taught classes in English and they were expected to pick it up. All my Uncles served in the military and 4 died on foreign soil during WWII and the Korean War. None of them graduated from High School! At 16 they were expected to get a job (my Grandfather's expectation) and make their own way. My father quit school in 8th grade (even though he was an Honor Student), lied about his age and enlisted in the Army. He worked his entire life as a manual laborer, digging graves, pumping gas and fixing other peoples cars. At one time (when all 3 of his boys were in college) he worked 3 jobs to pay the bills. All his kids went to college and now are working professionals and significantly contribute to society.

I know that many of you have the "same" story - just different names and locales. Point is - they did this all legally. Not hiding in any shadows but proudly paying their dues. They adopted their "new" country as opposed to expecting their new country to adopt them. The did not get and did not expect any special favors. I know that Latinos have it rough and those coming here illegally are desparate. BUT something has to be done to right the ship and fix the problem. A festering wound doesn't heal itself - it only gets worse.

So in answer to your query: I think we have "done a whole lot more" THAN JUST BEING BORN IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!!

[RICHARD]

I have thought about what I have done to earn my citizenship.

Nothing.

I do get on my knees often and realize that I do live in fairly decent country.

I do go on jags of being patriotic, sing the National Anthem before sporting events, look after my fellow man, try to be a civic minded person, learn another trivial fact about my country.


I have asked the security guards to fix the flag that flys over the parking lot on a windy game.

I know most of the rules concerning my flag. how to fold it, treat it when it becomes unflyable.

I didn't do anything to get my citizenship.

But I try to keep in good stead regarding the laws and the way it's run.

I respect the office of the country, but not the fools in the chairs.

There are many things l love about my country and many that I dislike.

I cringe on the days when I hear another stupid story that happens in my country-
I really cringe should it come out of Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah..
But that goes with the territory.

I'll fight and probably die for my country, But I may as well for She has treated me right for all these years.

Have I earned my citizenship? Probably not.

Which should make anyone entering the country, anyone who desires to wrap themselves in my flag, more apt to follow the rules.

I cannot earn my citizenship, but they can.

That is why I feel oh, so lucky that I didn't have to.

[lizbud]

Richard,

We all earn our citizenship every day by staying involved with what
goes on in the political arena in our name. By voting & speaking up we
may well prove lucky enough to live in a free society.

[smokey the elder]

IMO we earn our citizenship by complying with the laws of the land, paying taxes, voting, performing civic duties like jury duty, volunteering, becoming politically active, exercising our freedoms. But I'll admit we are definitely at an advantage because our ancestors did the legwork of becoming naturalized US citizens. During all eras of American history there were immigrant groups at the bottom of the social totem pole. In the antebellum East and South it was the Irish. In the post-Civil War West it was the Chinese railroad workers. They worked hard, were abused, but sucked it up, and made a better life for their kids. 'Nuff said...

[Sevaede]

BLACKMAIL was the first word that popped into my head too even before I got to you using it. Can you write any congress people about this??? With immagration being such a hot issue right now, it may help. Maybe CNN would like to air this or something?

Exact same things that popped into my head.

[BOBS DAD]

The thing I don't remember is if they earn this per week or per month. $460.00 a month seems ridiculously low, but $900.00 a week seems a little on the high side, so I'm not sure about the time period.

That doesn't "really" seem high - when you break it down. As a citizen, you can apply for Civil Servant jobs (Postal Workers, etc.) and earn decent money. You also stand a really good chance of being hired as minorities are given preference and extra points on their exams.

$900.00 a week is only $3,600.00 a month and $46,800.00 a year. That sounds about right. Not to mention that many people choose to continue to hold side jobs - often working for their initial employer (when they were not citizens and sometimes illegals).

Being against Immigration Reform or Anti-Illegal doesn't make you a "bad person" or a bigot. You are just excercising some of your rights as an American citizen - the right to dissent, to have an opinion and freedom to express your point of view!

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'm not sure I agree that some of the comments here have not been rather bigotted....but it is not against the law in any case.

But thre are some myths being repeated here that I think we should explode.

They don't pay taxes.
I don't know about your grocery store but mine does not have a line for those who are legal residents....taxes collected and a separate line for those who are not legal....no taxes. Furthermore, if someone is employed using an illegal social security number...they pay state income tax, federal income tax, and social security income tax (FICA). Because they are illegal, they will never collect social security nor can they file a return and get back any overpayment of taxes.

All the stuff they get free
It is true many foreign nationals do not want to give up citizenship in their native country. That does not mean they want to work here illegally. Despite what some think....it is not comfortable (nor easy) to be in this country illegally. You must always be afraid. Deportation hangs over your head. When I worked in the software industry we had many foreign nationals -- legally (H1-B). Some were interested in citizenship. Some were interested in permanent residence. Many planned on returning someday to their home country. (Always was an issue convincing them to participate in the 401(k). Until they understood they could take it with them.)

An aside at this point....we were hiring H1-B's because we could not find US educated graduates in the software field. I would have preferred to do so. Cheaper of course. My dream was to find a US educated and raised female with the right training. But math and science isn't cool to many of our young people.

There are many countries throughout the world which depend on their citizens working elsewhere and sending home wages. Egypt, the Phillipines are examples.

It is a complex problem with many layers. I do not know what the solution is. I don't think blaming it ALL on Mexican immigrants is the solution. I don't think builidng a wall between the US and Mexico and mass deportation is the answer.

And I don't think taking a Those People attitude helps the discussion. We have seen it before. There was a law denying immigration to Chinese, there was the Know Nothing political party -- dedicated to anti-immigration and anti-Catholic in the 1800's. There was the common sign in business in the 1920's and 1930's....NINA No Irish Need Apply.

Rather than a revisionist and emotional attitude about immigration in the past in this country, I think we should take a realistic and factual look at it and see if we can learn how it fix it this time.

[BOBS DAD]

"Long Haired Freaky People" need not apply...

And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, "me working for you"

WOW!!! I just made that up. Honestly!!!


"All the stuff they get free"...?

There are many statistics that suggest illegal aliens do in fact receive free medical care and social services at a staggering cost to the American economy. I could list many of them here, but I am afraid that it would sound quite slanderous and terribly unfair to the many wonderful, hardworking immigrants who "do" contribute positively to our society. BUT THOSE STATISTICAL FACTS ABOUT HEALTHCARE, WELFARE and LAW ENFORCEMENT are readily available if you choose to find them.

Yes, it's tough - this "immigration thing" and what to do about it, but let's not dance around the facts. It will not help anything and will only serve to prolong the fear, anxiety and discomfort that illegals experience.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Since this is America.....I will continue to believe there are many bigotted remarks being thrown around on this thread and you will continue to believe I am deluding myself.

Oh by the way.....dreaming of finding a female candidate for a traditionally male position is called outreach or affirmative action....not illegal.

But then....Rush Limbaugh probably doesn't mention that.

Truth, justice and the American way....one out of three isn't bad.....

I just made that up...honest.....

[momoffuzzyfaces]

$900.00 a week is only $3,600.00 a month and $46,800.00 a year. That sounds about right. Not to mention that many people choose to continue to hold side jobs - often working for their initial employer (when they were not citizens and sometimes illegals).

If the illegals are getting $900 a week I'm going to really freak out!!! I don't even get $1000 a month on my Social Security disability after working for over 20 years and paying taxes and Social Security. !!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

MOFF....Debbie's post said immigrants who become citizens earn, on average $900.00....as a contrast to illegal immigrants earning $460.00. So that would be....naturalized citizens earn on average $900.00. That is about the national average for a family of four.

But here we see how myths are spread. It went from what Debbie said to illegals earning that amount....becoming postal workers and getting special points for being minorities. NOT ALL IMMIGRANTS -- legal or illegal ARE HISPANIC.

Does anyone wonder how the earnings of illegal immigrants are measured?

And...my grandmother had her children at home by midwives. Most women did. She had no health insurance. Health insurance did not come about until WWII. Employers were under wage and price controls as an attempt to prevent inflation as employers compete for the suddenly limited availability of workers. So to comply with wage controls they began offering fringes, such as health insurance to attract workers.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

MOFF....Debbie's post said immigrants who become citizens earn, on average $900.00....as a contrast to illegal immigrants earning $460.00. So that would be....naturalized citizens earn on average $900.00. That is about the national average for a family of four.

But here we see how myths are spread. It went from what Debbie said to illegals earning that amount....becoming postal workers and getting special points for being minorities. NOT ALL IMMIGRANTS -- legal or illegal ARE HISPANIC.

Does anyone wonder how the earnings of illegal immigrants are measured?

And...my grandmother had her children at home by midwives. Most women did. She had no health insurance. Health insurance did not come about until WWII. Employers were under wage and price controls as an attempt to prevent inflation as employers compete for the suddenly limited availability of workers. So to comply with wage controls they began offering fringes, such as health insurance to attract workers.

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't even making that much in wages after working for an insurance co for 20 years even with a college education!!!

I've always wondered how they measure things like how certain people's earnings are measured too. Along with how do they know which people women vote for or African American's vote for. They must have our supposidly secret ballots marked somehow. Maybe that's what that x is on the bottom of our ballots. (we still use a pencil when voting here).