Find that breed!

[Spiritwind]

I thought I'd seen a picture of a red merle collie not only on PT but in my dog encyclopedia.

Nope.. you might have seen a sable merle and THOUGHT it was a red merle.. but rough and smooth collies do not come in red merle. A blue merle is a black dog with the dilute (merle gene).. which creates the blue/silver color. A red merle is a liver/red dog with the merle gene. Collies do not come in red/liver. However Aussies and Border Collies do.

Some sable merles can apppear redish, depending on how dark the sable is. But most sable merles are a light golden/straw color.. as puppies you can see the merling, but usually as adults they loose the merling and just look like a very light sable. Of course their are acceptions, like ParNones smooth Oz, who is a very obvious sable merle, and did not loose the merling as an adult...

Janna

[binka_nugget]

What color would this be considered?

[K9soul]

Hmm could that be a collie mixed with a red merle BC? The anatomy can be quite similar and it could be hard to tell a mix. Unless it's some odd double dilute sable merle and white or something. I've never seen one with that coloring and I know when I was involved in showing my collie and studying color genetics etc, red merle was not in the genetics charts.

I was looking at some red merle BCs. Just wondering if that collie could have some BC in her. Odd

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museu...rRedMerle.html

[sammy101]

Cardigan welsh corgi


pomeranian

[Tralee]

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=39533

umm I guess this game shouldn't be played?

[Spiritwind]

What color would this be considered?

My guess is that this puppy is a mix with a red merle BC, not a pure bred Collie.

Janna

[Sevaede]

Nope.. you might have seen a sable merle and THOUGHT it was a red merle.. but rough and smooth collies do not come in red merle. A blue merle is a black dog with the dilute (merle gene).. which creates the blue/silver color. A red merle is a liver/red dog with the merle gene. Collies do not come in red/liver. However Aussies and Border Collies do.

Some sable merles can apppear redish, depending on how dark the sable is. But most sable merles are a light golden/straw color.. as puppies you can see the merling, but usually as adults they loose the merling and just look like a very light sable. Of course their are acceptions, like ParNones smooth Oz, who is a very obvious sable merle, and did not loose the merling as an adult...

Janna

While I am quite familiar with what the merle genes are, what causes them, and what breed gets them, I am a little bit weirded out that rough and smooth collies do not get the red merle. In The Complete Encyclopedia of Dogs, Esther Verhoef-Verhallen wrote the book to FCI standards and says that sable merle includes a wide range of colours including red. Argh! So confused! XD

[Spiritwind]

While I am quite familiar with what the merle genes are, what causes them, and what breed gets them, I am a little bit weirded out that rough and smooth collies do not get the red merle. In The Complete Encyclopedia of Dogs, Esther Verhoef-Verhallen wrote the book to FCI standards and says that sable merle includes a wide range of colours including red. Argh! So confused! XD

If you look thru the internet you can find pictures of Sable Collies in all differnet shades. From a very light golden straw color, to a rich red/orange color to a dark mahogany color that almost looks black. These are all different shades of SABLE. This is not Red, like Red Tri or red merle assues or BC's.

Have you ever seen pics of the Lassie that played in the 1994 movie? That dog would be considered a red or orange sable.

Collies do not geneticly come in Red Tri-color or Red Merles. They come in Black Tri-Colors, Blue Merles, Sables, Sable Merles and color headed whites.

Sable has a wide range of colors, but no matter the shade it is sable. Sable and Red are geneticly not the same. Sable is a dominate gene. Tri-color is recessive. Merle is an incomplete dominate.

Also, atleast from the pictures I have seen, red merle and red tri aussies have red/liver pigment on their nose, where Sable and Sable Merle Collies have black pigment on their nose.

Here are a few pictures of some sables I have had, in different shades:


This is Dodger - sold as a pet, he is a sable merle. Dam is a blue merle, sire is as sable. When he was a puppy he had merling down his back and on his tail, but that is gone now.... he also has a blue eye, dead give away of a sable merle. Notice the black nose.


This is a litter I had in 2004. Left to Right: Rough Blue bitch, Rough Tri Bitch, Rough Sable Merle Dog (Dodger) and Smooth Sable bitch. Notice the merling on the sable merle puppy, down his back and on his tail.. his tail even has a blue shade to is. Of course now his whole body is just a golden straw color.



A puppy picture of Eli, at 7 wks. He is a darker/red sable.



And the last picture is Pennie, a Mahogany Sable I used to have. She is pictured here at roughly 18 months of age... by 2 1/2 yrs s he had even more dark sable/mahogany thru her coat and was very dark. Her sire, Buster was a mahogany sable and from a distance looked almost black.