anyone against bush, US president?

**Lady's Human** · 02-03-2006, 09:51 AM

Former VP Gore has much more than President Bush in oil money. The President's net worth is listed variably as between 9 and 26 million dollars, with the largest single piece of his portfolio being his Crawford, Tx ranch. He has not been in the petroleum industry since the early '80s.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 02-03-2006, 10:29 AM

Nice try LH. How did he perform when he was in the oil industry by the way? Poorly? Did he make any money at it? He did? How is that? He sold his little compnay to another company and then sold his stock JUST BEFORE it tanked! Doesn't the SEC have a problem with that kind of action? Doesn't that mean many other people LOST money because they didn't sell when GW did?

All that aside....how much of GW's campaign contributions come from oil companies? WHo was on his committee to look into energy policy? And how much profit did Exxon Mobil make in 2005......NET profit????

Nice spin though.....bringing up Gore's portfolio....

**Lady's Human** · 02-03-2006, 11:12 AM

Not spin, ES, fact. Spin is bringing up history that's no longer relevant (Bush's past in the petroleum industry, it's two decades in the past) to smear someone in the present. The transaction that you mentioned was looked into by the SEC and no formal investigation was launched.

Fact would be that Former VP Gore, who constantly proclaims he is an environmentalist and publicly champions combustion emissions caps has large amounts of oil stocks (Standard Oil Co) in his portfolio. While a part of that portfolio is a blind trust, he could contact the trust's administrators and request that they divest in stocks that he finds offensive, which he hasn't done. It falls under the heading of cleaning your own porch first.

Compared to other sectors, the energy industry in general did not contribute much during the 2004 election cycle at all, giving $4.2 Mil, as compared to lawyers and lobbyist groups, who gave over $22 million dollars.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 02-03-2006, 12:00 PM

But it is spin when you bring up Gore as a counter to Bush....he was in the 2000 election. History...past...irrevelant.

And aren't you being a teensy bit disengeneous in your statement that the SEC did not launch a formal investigation. Will you tell us what the SEC did?

And if spin is "bringing up past that is no longer relevant"....how do you use it in discussing Cindy Sheehan and the SOTU? Her dead son is past and therefore irrelevant?

**lady_zana** · 02-03-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Not spin, ES, fact. Spin is bringing up history that's no longer relevant (Bush's past in the petroleum industry, it's two decades in the past) to smear someone in the present.

No, spin is saying something in a light to sway public opinion. It isn't always used to smear a person and nor is it always something from the past.

To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion: “a messenger who spins bogus research into a vile theology of hatred” (William A. Henry III).

-- www.dictionary.com

Spin - a political agenda, twisting truths or facts into something that "proves" your point of view.

-- http://ircpolitics.org/glossary.html#S

**Lady's Human** · 02-03-2006, 12:27 PM

LZ, in this case, it was spin. There are MANY definitions of it, I was using one that happened to fit the situation.

It was also a smear (bringing up old, unsubstantiated allegations that have been openly aired in public many times). They are not mutually exclusive.

**RICHARD** · 02-03-2006, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by lady_zana

No, spin is saying something in a light to sway public opinion. It isn't always used to smear a person and nor is it always something from the past.

To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion: “a messenger who spins bogus research into a vile theology of hatred” (William A. Henry III).

-- www.dictionary.com

Spin - a political agenda, twisting truths or facts into something that "proves" your point of view.

-- http://ircpolitics.org/glossary.html#S

Spin: V. - the cycle after wash.

Maytag.com

Spin: V. - Method used by Lance Armstrong to train for the Tour de Freance.

Livestrong.com

Spin: V. - the proverbial crock of "stuff"

Any politician.com

**Edwina's Secretary** · 02-03-2006, 01:06 PM

It was also a smear (bringing up old, unsubstantiated allegations that have been openly aired in public many times).

Is this how you would define the action of those guys who accused Kerry of lying about his performance in Viet Nam???

And btw....the SEC DID investigate Bush....never let facts get in the way of a good spin...

**Lady's Human** · 02-03-2006, 02:01 PM

ES, I looked at several stories, the jist of the preliminary investigation was that nothing was found that would lead to a formal investigation.

There are a lot of questions about Kerry's actions in Vietnam, among them being why he was not given an honorable discharge until the late '70's. (Even if one is discharged from active duty to the reserve components you get a discharge of some sort) The normal route leading to such a late discharge is an OTH (Other than honorable or General under honorable conditions) being challenged leading to an honorable discharge several years after the fact, which is among the many reasons there are a lot of people who question his service record. Given the timeline of the "Winter Soldiers" issues, and given the fact that under the UCMJ it is illegal to participate in partisan political activities (which Winter soldiers most certainly was) while in the service, I would question what the original discharge he was given was. Kerry also caused breaches of the UCMJ while he was campaigning, using uniformed servicemen as political props at campaign events, which is illegal under the hatch act.

**Corinna** · 02-03-2006, 02:18 PM

Spin The art of making some thing soft and fuzzy in to durable yarn for knittin Corinna's spinsters Alminac.

Sorry couldn't help it. I will ot get sucked in to this debate Just go to www.goodnewsIraq.com Whether you agree we should have gone or not we are making a better life for those folks.
Of course the main stream news wouldn't mention this stuff.

**RICHARD** · 02-03-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lady's Human

ES. (Even if one is discharged from active duty to the reserve components you get a discharge of some sort)

Does his wife know he came back from Viet Nam with this discharge??

**Edwina's Secretary** · 02-03-2006, 08:05 PM

pssstt...LH....VietNam was a long time ago....you are engaging in what YOU defined as smear!

You are very selective in what you call smear and what you call spin. Your guy spins...the other guy smears.....

A preliminary investigation is an investigation....

I was around during Viet Nam....going into the National Guard or the Reserves...first was very hard to do....it was a way to avoid going to Viet Nam. My brother-in-law at the time did it (you had to use clout to get in...my bil had a dad who was a state cop.) To call GW's enlistment anything other than draft dodging is pure BS.....but I am sure you classify that as a smear....ancient history that has been hashed over.....

But of course in the word of VP Cheney..."I had better things to do..."

How can you not call Kerry's military service smear? It was longer ago than Bush failure as an oilman????

**Lady's Human** · 02-04-2006, 07:54 AM

ES, I didn't bring up Kerry's record, you did.

Former VP gore is not old news, as he keeps inserting himself into the political scene, regardless of how inconsequential he is. Funny, it used to be the loser bowed out gracefully and let the winner do the job. The first President Bush was not really heard from after his defeat, President Ford remained largely out of the spotlight, and President Carter did as well. It seems that the part of the graceful loser and the graceful exit of the chief executives is a thing of the past (thank you to President Clinton's team for that).

**AbbyMom** · 02-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Jimmy Carter out of the spotlight? Bowed out? He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his work at the Carter Center, which is world renowned for conflict mediation and election monitoring. Established 2 years after leaving office.

I just finished his book "Our Endangered Values." I highly recommend it. It's currently number 8 on the NY Times Hardcover best seller list. He's definitely inserting himself into the current political scene.

"Perhaps that's why the former president, Nobel Peace Prize-winner, and bestselling author ranks as one of the planet's most respected voices in the areas of human rights, diplomacy, and good government"

**Edwina's Secretary** · 02-04-2006, 10:31 AM

Perhaps that is because Gore wasn't the loser of anything but the Supreme Court election?

And let's be honest....Dole did go on to make tv commercials for erectile dysfunction. Does that count as inserting himself?