anyone against bush, US president?

[BitsyNaceyDog]

Bush's personal gain? WHAT personal gain?

I am still waiting for my cheap Iraqi oil.......After all, we have paid for it in blood.

That will never happen, not while Bush is President anyway. Don't forget he's in the oil business. He wants the prices we pay to be high, it means more money in his pockets. After all isn't that what his goal is- to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. If that's not his goal, he sure is fooling me.

[Lady's Human]

Former VP Gore has much more than President Bush in oil money. The President's net worth is listed variably as between 9 and 26 million dollars, with the largest single piece of his portfolio being his Crawford, Tx ranch. He has not been in the petroleum industry since the early '80s.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Nice try LH. How did he perform when he was in the oil industry by the way? Poorly? Did he make any money at it? He did? How is that? He sold his little compnay to another company and then sold his stock JUST BEFORE it tanked! Doesn't the SEC have a problem with that kind of action? Doesn't that mean many other people LOST money because they didn't sell when GW did?

All that aside....how much of GW's campaign contributions come from oil companies? WHo was on his committee to look into energy policy? And how much profit did Exxon Mobil make in 2005......NET profit????

Nice spin though.....bringing up Gore's portfolio....

[Lady's Human]

Not spin, ES, fact. Spin is bringing up history that's no longer relevant (Bush's past in the petroleum industry, it's two decades in the past) to smear someone in the present. The transaction that you mentioned was looked into by the SEC and no formal investigation was launched.

Fact would be that Former VP Gore, who constantly proclaims he is an environmentalist and publicly champions combustion emissions caps has large amounts of oil stocks (Standard Oil Co) in his portfolio. While a part of that portfolio is a blind trust, he could contact the trust's administrators and request that they divest in stocks that he finds offensive, which he hasn't done. It falls under the heading of cleaning your own porch first.

Compared to other sectors, the energy industry in general did not contribute much during the 2004 election cycle at all, giving $4.2 Mil, as compared to lawyers and lobbyist groups, who gave over $22 million dollars.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But it is spin when you bring up Gore as a counter to Bush....he was in the 2000 election. History...past...irrevelant.

And aren't you being a teensy bit disengeneous in your statement that the SEC did not launch a formal investigation. Will you tell us what the SEC did?

And if spin is "bringing up past that is no longer relevant"....how do you use it in discussing Cindy Sheehan and the SOTU? Her dead son is past and therefore irrelevant?

[lady_zana]

Not spin, ES, fact. Spin is bringing up history that's no longer relevant (Bush's past in the petroleum industry, it's two decades in the past) to smear someone in the present.

No, spin is saying something in a light to sway public opinion. It isn't always used to smear a person and nor is it always something from the past.


To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion: “a messenger who spins bogus research into a vile theology of hatred” (William A. Henry III).

-- www.dictionary.com

Spin - a political agenda, twisting truths or facts into something that "proves" your point of view.

-- http://ircpolitics.org/glossary.html#S

[Lady's Human]

LZ, in this case, it was spin. There are MANY definitions of it, I was using one that happened to fit the situation.

It was also a smear (bringing up old, unsubstantiated allegations that have been openly aired in public many times). They are not mutually exclusive.

[RICHARD]

No, spin is saying something in a light to sway public opinion. It isn't always used to smear a person and nor is it always something from the past.


To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion: “a messenger who spins bogus research into a vile theology of hatred” (William A. Henry III).

-- www.dictionary.com

Spin - a political agenda, twisting truths or facts into something that "proves" your point of view.

-- http://ircpolitics.org/glossary.html#S

Spin: V. - the cycle after wash.

Maytag.com

Spin: V. - Method used by Lance Armstrong to train for the Tour de Freance.

Livestrong.com

Spin: V. - the proverbial crock of "stuff"

Any politician.com

[Edwina's Secretary]

It was also a smear (bringing up old, unsubstantiated allegations that have been openly aired in public many times).

Is this how you would define the action of those guys who accused Kerry of lying about his performance in Viet Nam???

And btw....the SEC DID investigate Bush....never let facts get in the way of a good spin...