Advice please

[Dixieland Dancer]

I really got a lot of info from this, and am i missing your post or have you been gone for a while??

Thanks! I've been very busy and haven't posted much. I do drop in from time to time as time permits and sometimes I'm able to post and others I spend the time catching up on posts. There are so many anymore it is hard to keep up!

SLLEIPNIR: I guess one thing I should stress is that until you have a solid attention established, it is best not to work on a recall. While it is possible to do recall without attention, it is like putting the cart before the horse. Things work better when they are in their proper order. Having a solid attention with Zeke will help establish a solid recall (your ultimate goal) when it is time. Be patient... it will come! Until then, you should not let Zeke off lead at the dog park because he may encounter an aggressive dog.

When you are ready to move forward (if you try it this suggested way) let me know. I'll give you the next steps.

[captain]

That helps me so much too!!!!!

Thanks so much

[slleipnir]

Thanks for the info.

When you say "don't let him off leash at the dog park" does this mean don't let me off leash AT ALL? I do not take him to the dog park. I don't care for it, personally. I take him to the human park () and let him off leash in a baseball diamond (fenced in) with no other dogs (unless I find out the dog is friendly and allowed to play, then sometimes he will play with the dog) I find he NEEDS to run off leash because he needs the exersice. I simply cannot walk long enough, or fast enough for what he needs. He is a runner, and I believe he needs it. So, assuming there are no dogs in with him, would it ruin everything to let him run??

That being said...I did some focus work with him. He was looking around at everything, and I tried saying "Watch me" and holding a treat in front of him. I said "Yeeesss!" when he gave eye contact. He got a little confused at first, wondering what I wanted him to do, and he started to bark. I had to point to my eyes for him to get it.

I had him on leash as we were leaving, and this big saint bernard came. I tried to do the watch me thing again, but he wouldn't even turn his head to me until the dog past. I let them sniff, should I not let him go to the dog at all?? Anyway, the dog left, and he kept looking at it, but I could get a quick look in the eyes and praise. I literally think he is deaf when he sees dogs!! I'll keep working. Will he really learn to focus on me? I know when I work Josie, if she knows treats are involved, and lets say we're heeling, she won't take her eyes off me. Even walking, she looks right at my eyes. A trainer told me once that that is really good...to bad she is only like that if I had food lol

[k9krazee]

What you are explaining is EXACTLY what Jack is like !!

We worked on the "Watch me" command for a long time in the house and slowly added distractions and he is excellent at watching me...unless he sees another dog. We enrolled in obedience classes and he was HORRIBLE the first night and wouldn't pay attention to me and only to the other dogs, but after the first day he was great and paid them no attention. He is just like Zeke, always wants to meet and say hi to other dogs. I too take him to a park (well, the middle school) and let him run offleash, he has a perfect recall if no dogs are present but if he sees a dog he goes completely deaf

That being said, I will keep a close eye on this thread for any other tips that will help us!

[slleipnir]

What you are explaining is EXACTLY what Jack is like !!

We worked on the "Watch me" command for a long time in the house and slowly added distractions and he is excellent at watching me...unless he sees another dog. We enrolled in obedience classes and he was HORRIBLE the first night and wouldn't pay attention to me and only to the other dogs, but after the first day he was great and paid them no attention. He is just like Zeke, always wants to meet and say hi to other dogs. I too take him to a park (well, the middle school) and let him run offleash, he has a perfect recall if no dogs are present but if he sees a dog he goes completely deaf

That being said, I will keep a close eye on this thread for any other tips that will help us!

I'm glad to know Zeke isn't the only one. I was beginning to think it was just Zeke!! At flyball, all the new dogs seem to do just fine with other dogs (IE, not OVERLY interested) Zeke seems to be the only one!!

[lv4dogs]

You should always keep them on a leash until their recall is as solid as a rock.
Just what if he runs away & doesn't come when called, all your training up to that point went right down the drain.

How about a long training line? They make them up to 50 feet, possibly even 100 feet. Let him have all of it, just keep your hand on the end. He will still have a ton of movement.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Thanks for the info.

When you say "don't let him off leash at the dog park" does this mean don't let me off leash AT ALL? I...let him off leash in a baseball diamond (fenced in) with no other dogs ... I find he NEEDS to run off leash because he needs the exersice. So, assuming there are no dogs in with him, would it ruin everything to let him run??

That being said...I did some focus work with him. He was looking around at everything, and I tried saying "Watch me" and holding a treat in front of him. I said "Yeeesss!" when he gave eye contact. He got a little confused at first, wondering what I wanted him to do, and he started to bark. I had to point to my eyes for him to get it.

I had him on leash as we were leaving, and this big saint bernard came. I tried to do the watch me thing again, but he wouldn't even turn his head to me until the dog past. I let them sniff, should I not let him go to the dog at all?? I'll keep working. Will he really learn to focus on me? I know when I work Josie, if she knows treats are involved, and lets say we're heeling, she won't take her eyes off me. Even walking, she looks right at my eyes. A trainer told me once that that is really good...to bad she is only like that if I had food lol

I edited some of your post out for responding to it. First, if you are in a controlled area and no other dogs (your problem) are around, then let Zeke run if you can. I agree that sometimes dogs need to run for exercise, especially if they are high energy dogs. Just make sure the dog is safe at all times. This will NOT ruin any of your training.

Second, you are rushing things by putting a verbal command of 'watch me' on the first day you try this exercise. The idea is to make the dog think and realize he has to "watch you" instead of you telling him to "watch you". That is why I never put a verbal on a command until the dog understands the concept of what he is doing. He needs to do the thinking, not the listening! He will be confused at first and looking at everything except you. That is why when he even glances in your direction he immediately gets the reward. Looking at everything else but you is a normal response at first until he realizes when he looks at you he gets rewarded. Be patient. This can take time for the dog to figure out, depending on how often you work him in the exercises. I would recommend doing it at least twice a day for 10 minutes and even more if you have the time. Don't go any longer than 10 minutes. I've seen some dogs NOT look at their owners eyes for minutes with the owner getting frustrated. It's hard just to stand there and wait for the dog to look but at this point in the training that is exactly what you have to do. If the dog doesn't look at you at all, your reward is not a big enough value to the dog. Try using something more enticing.

Last, think about this scenario... the dog acts up when he sees another dog and then he gets to sniff or play with the other dog. His reward for acting up is he gets what he wants... to play! If he gets rewarded everytime he acts up with the reward of playing or getting to sniff another dog, it just makes sense that he thinks that is acceptable behavior. So the answer to your question is NO... they should not get any interaction when inappropriate behavior is involved. Will he ever be able to play with other friendly dogs again. Of course! But for now his goal is to focus on you. A gentle tug of the lead and a really enticing reward (bigger than him looking at the other dog) has to be readily available. If he doesn't listen and continues to misbehave with wild behavior, it would result in a down and me standing on the lead so he couldn't pull. We would stay in that position until he does focus on me. Only when he focuses on me would he get any kind of reward.

You stated that Josie listens when food is involved but not anytime other than that. In positive dog training you need to fade the lure or treat once the dog has a firm grasp on the concept. In training, instead of every time she does something she gets a treat, lower it to every other time and when she has that down then ever third time until you get reliable commands even when no food is present. A dog who is food motivated only was never weaned from food rewards properly.

He will learn to focus on you! It takes time and practice, practice and more practice!