We're Buying from a Breeder

[Vela]

I do agree with Kay and K9soul that the apartment situation with a young child and a puppy could cause some issues and that it really may be better off to have an older more settled down dog to start with but if you really have your mind set on a puppy then make sure you research really well, like it looks like you are doing. There will be issue and problems that arise from having a puppy that may not when getting an older dog but you are the bset one to gauge how you can handle those.

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist. What needs to stop is indicriminant breeding of designer dogs and pets and the negligence of not spaying and nuetering. I will gladly support ANY responsible and ethical breeder who takes the time and money to do it right because I LOVE certain breds of dogs and thier characteristics and they would be bred out and disappear if the good breeders weren't supported. This is my opinion though, and thankfully we are allowed a difference of opinions=) Responsible breeders cannot be held accountable for all of those who aren't..they can only do their best to make sure THEIR dogs are as healthy and of sound mind and body as possible. They are not the cause of the overpopulation problem, most produce very few puppies, it's the mills and stupid people of the world that won't fix their pets that cause the problem, blame should be placed duly where it belongs. I do support rescues and those who do it and no kill shelters, I donate to several, but I also think GOOD breeders are necessary as well.

[Pam]

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist.

Amen!! Thank you for that!!! I was going to say the same thing only you have done it so much more eloquently.

My daughter had a two year old with a very large puppy and, yes it involves monitoring puppy and child carefully but if you are up to the task I say go for it! I think having any dog without a fenced yard will present the most problems with you and your young child. During the housetraining process you will be going out many, many times a day with the pup and won't be able to leave the two year old inside alone in the apartment, so that will mean a trip outside for the two of you each time the pup needs to go potty. In that regard I think an adult, already trained dog, might be the best idea. Whatever you decide, please do let us know and don't be turned off by a few. We all love dogs here but just look at things a little differently at times.

[bckrazy]

Hmm. I probably missed something, but I thought you were getting an ACD mix pup? Oh well.

You probably dont care about my opinion at ALL, as I think you told me off before about my views on puppies and such ... but, I really do understand wanting to purchase a purebred pup from a reputable breeder. IMHO, even though rescue is saving a life, if it better suits you situation, it is NOT the responsible, purebred, dedicated, contract breeders who take back any puppy if/when it needs a new home who are pumping out pups that go straight into shelters. I absolutely understand wanting a very healthy dog from great parents who has been raised with lots of care & socialization.

If I were in your shoes, I would adopt an adult Lab, but that's me. It really is difficult to judge an innocent 8 week-old puppy as to whether or not they'll be kid-friendly, gentle, mellow, etc. My sister has a Lab (who she got as a tiny little puppy) who is now 100+ lbs and although he is extremely sweet, he could easily injure a small child because he does NOT know his own strength, even though he's 4 years old and matured. Anyway, it really is hard to predict a pup for your somewhat sensitive situation (as far as having a toddler, and living in an apartment, which both would not suit a very high-drive high-energy dog... sometimes, no matter how they're brought up). There is also the option of getting an older puppy/retired adult from a reputable breeder in your area. Lots of breeders need to re-home pups that turn out not to be show quality, or retired show dogs. Whatever you do, good luck! Either way, you are definitely committed, which is great.

[Cataholic]

As to cataholic, there is a HUGE difference between irresponsible BYB breeders and responsible breeders who do health testing, conformation testing, and tempermanet testing on their dogs before breeding. I disagree with your opinion that all breeding should stop, if that was the case then only the irresponsible breeders would be left and sickly and poor representations of each breed are all that would exist. What needs to stop is indicriminant breeding of designer dogs and pets and the negligence of not spaying and nuetering. I will gladly support ANY responsible and ethical breeder who takes the time and money to do it right because I LOVE certain breds of dogs and thier characteristics and they would be bred out and disappear if the good breeders weren't supported. This is my opinion though, and thankfully we are allowed a difference of opinions=) Responsible breeders cannot be held accountable for all of those who aren't..they can only do their best to make sure THEIR dogs are as healthy and of sound mind and body as possible. They are not the cause of the overpopulation problem, most produce very few puppies, it's the mills and stupid people of the world that won't fix their pets that cause the problem, blame should be placed duly where it belongs. I do support rescues and those who do it and no kill shelters, I donate to several, but I also think GOOD breeders are necessary as well.

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board ) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

I think, for me, it comes down to realizing that while I can't affect the world at large with my personal decision (in this case to adopt from a shelter, rather than go to a breeder), I can work towards eliminating the pet overpopulation. It is about supply and demand. If people would stop buying from BYB, pet stores, eventually- shoot, maybe not in my lifetime- it will come down to what you claim-only the responsible breeders are left to breed-
It truly saddens my heart to know that people really interested in a PET (as many, many of us are), would overlook adoption for, IMO, no real reason.

Johanna

PS- don't pick on my mispellings...I think I got the difference between two, too, and to all ironed out.

PSS- and, don't claim anything is a joke! That isn't allowed anymore....you must be 100% PC at all times less your fragile ego is shattered.

PSS- I don't really mean any of this towards you! Truly. No joke.

[buttercup132]

http://www.lrro.on.ca/

i found a site to a lab rescue in ontario please look at it if you dont reply ill pm it to you

[Vela]

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board ) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That

SO
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

I think, for me, it comes down to realizing that while I can't affect the world at large with my personal decision (in this case to adopt from a shelter, rather than go to a breeder), I can work towards eliminating the pet overpopulation. It is about supply and demand. If people would stop buying from BYB, pet stores, eventually- shoot, maybe not in my lifetime- it will come down to what you claim-only the responsible breeders are left to breed-
It truly saddens my heart to know that people really interested in a PET (as many, many of us are), would overlook adoption for, IMO, no real reason.

Johanna

PS- don't pick on my mispellings...I think I got the difference between two, too, and to all ironed out.

PSS- and, don't claim anything is a joke! That isn't allowed anymore....you must be 100% PC at all times less your fragile ego is shattered.

PSS- I don't really mean any of this towards you! Truly. No joke.

Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest. And being repsonsible doesn't just mean saying you have done the testing, they have paperwork to back it up.

BTW, your no breeding of any kind thing would eventually cause dogs to disappear since they do grow old and die and I'm really not up on the whole cloning thing being a good idea...If responsible breeders stopped breeding until the unhomed pets all found homes, then by the time that happened there would be no dogs for them to breed resposibly with because their dogs would all be dead from old age and the only dogs left would be ill bred or mixed breed dogs...I think it would be a shame to lose all of the wonderful breeds out there.

[Vela]

BTW I do understand WHY you feel that way, and that all dogs deserve a good home and not to die in a shelter, but i just don't agree with the method of going about it because then the other breeds would be lost to us as well.

[Pam]

Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest.

You have done it again Vela and stolen the words right out of my mouth. The responsibility lies in EDUCATING people about spaying and neutering and the responsibilities of pet ownership once they get a dog, whether from a breeder or shelter or anywhere they might find him/her.

I am in the unique situation of having had purebred poodles for over 30 years and three years ago adopted a shelter poodle. Do I consider love Ripley any less or think of him as a "lesser" dog because his lineage is uncertain. Of course not. And, honestly, any future dog I get will be a rescue, but I certainly do understand why people go to breeders and do see a need for them. I happen to be a *hopelessly poodle person* and love the breed and the traits, etc. I would hate it if they disappeared into ....oodles and apoos, etc., etc.

[lv4dogs]

Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest. And being repsonsible doesn't just mean saying you have done the testing, they have paperwork to back it up.

BTW, your no breeding of any kind thing would eventually cause dogs to disappear since they do grow old and die and I'm really not up on the whole cloning thing being a good idea...If responsible breeders stopped breeding until the unhomed pets all found homes, then by the time that happened there would be no dogs for them to breed resposibly with because their dogs would all be dead from old age and the only dogs left would be ill bred or mixed breed dogs...I think it would be a shame to lose all of the wonderful breeds out there.

Ditto!
Vela, you are awesome!



Anyways, Tasha I am glad you decided on a shelter dog.
Would it be possible for you to tell your shelter what you are looking for in a dog (size, good w/ kids, grooming needs etc...) and they can keep an eye out for you & let you know when they have a possible match for you? I know the shelters arund me do that!

I wish you the best of luck!

[Roxyluvsme13]

Cool! Glad you're going to save some lucky pups life! Honestly I would get something like a toy breed. They're fragile and stuff, but Im sure you already knew this! Anyways I hope you find the perfect dog for your family

[Pam]

I am sorry you reacted so hotly Johanna. It was not my intention to rile you up. You must realize, though, that you and I were "breeders" and we chose to be. We had/have that right. I am not disputing the fact that you are giving your son a loving home and caring for him. What I am disputing is your narrow view that any breeding of dogs (and I assume cats) is wrong, thus my comment regarding human breeding. If we were as righteous as we should be I guess we should all be adopting and all running out to get our tubes tied. I imagine somewhere out there is a forum as narrow minded as you seem to be, only it is on the subject where people are criticized for having their own genetic children. Geesh!

[Cataholic]

Wow, Pam, thanks for making it so personal. That is just the hypocrisy I am speaking of. I am entitled to my opinion without being called narrow minded. To hear another woman call me a breeder is really, really sad. You have personally attacked me, and my opinions. I am not riled up, I am emphatically speaking my opinion, without labelling you, or anyone else, for theirs. And, just for the record, I wasn't imagining that you were somehow faulting my child rearing skills. I have a wee bit more self esteem than that. You are a total stranger to me. Your opinion cannot have that sort of impact on my life, nor should mine on anyone else's.

If you calmly go back and read my posts, you will see that I did not attack people for breeding their dogs (and cats, you are right, I feel the same way there). I just don't think it is right. I guess I should look at it this way, it always gives me a chance to push rescue.

[LuvGold00]

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board ) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

I know, I know, beating a dead horse.... but I just gotta say, as a BREEDER myself... OUCH, you have no clue. <<off soapbox>>

Crazy-Cat-Lover
Good luck with whatever happens, just follow your heart. I'm glad Kay could help you, she's one amazing woman. The world should have more people like her.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Thank you!

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Just thought I would let you know that the Lab Kay posted (Tanner) about isnt good with small children. Darn!