Say No To Silver Labs

[IRescue452]

for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.

A colour can't appear that often when only 3 colours are line bred by show breeders. If you put all colours of labs together and let them breed without human interference for enough time to overcome many years of line breeding you'd come across a pertenent palette of natural colouring. Of course this is never going to happen, nor should it. I'm not saying that these colors will be 25% of the population, I'm just saying they would come along and still be purebred and still be labradors.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.

A colour can't appear that often when only 3 colours are line bred by show breeders. If you put all colours of labs together and let them breed without human interference for enough time to overcome many years of line breeding you'd come across a pertenent palette of natural colouring. Of course this is never going to happen, nor should it. I'm not saying that these colors will be 25% of the population, I'm just saying they would come along and still be purebred and still be labradors.

well if we let every breed to reproduce without control and without following the breed standard....we wouldn't have any breed at all!!!

they certainly wouldn't still be labradors. a brindle, B&T, silver, blue, etc.. would be a dog which's parents are labradors. for a dog to be considered as a lab, it has to fit to the breed standard. i don't see why this is so hard to understand.

it seems like you don't understand the relation breeder-standard. you keep saying that breeders are the ones that don't like or don't accept this or that color. it's not the breeders. it's the breed standard. i've seen breeders go through hell because they had their hopes up for that planned litter in which there's a B&T or a brindle, which by the way, turns out to be show quality except for the color. so they have to neuter it and give it to a good home. i've seen them let out a tear or two during this events. it's heart breaking, but that's not the point. the point is that some people, a 100 yeras ago (moreless) created a breed to perform and look one specific way. they parent club has published a specific standard and it has to be followed, to preserve the type, soundness and skills of the labrador.

[Allecto]

Torner, you say silvers are more prone to certain auto-immune disorders... if true, that would make me more inclined to believe that at least a portion of silver labs are purebred genetic flukes. It seems like a crossbreed wouldn't be consistantly developing the same genetic defect, but maybe that's just me.


Also, if a color occurs in less than 25% of the population, it is unnatural?! Where the heck do you get that from, and how do you back it up? By that argument, all red-headed humans are fake and unnatural. I guess they must be crossed with orangutans or something . Since none of us can prove they're not, I call for the sterilization of all red-heads!

You aren't an expert, so just ask me if I need to point out the differences and similarities:







"No good dog is a bad color" -- Max von Stephanitz

[Allecto]

it has to fit to the breed standard. i don't see why this is so hard to understand.

The Bible, the Qu'ran, the Vedas, the Torah, the Breed Standard...

Maybe it is because IRescue and Cagney see a dog first, and some arbitrary ruler of worth based on conformation to a standard in order to promote one's kennel/line/business second? Just a guess.

[Suki Wingy]

Dogs are not humans, don't treat them like one.

[Husky_mom]

just what i was going to say, so it might not be the desirable color for show and breeding purposes but it doesnt make them less lab.

as if i get a husky with floppy ears or a blue eyed samoyed or a shepherd born with no tail, that doesnt make them less of their breed, just not suitable for breeding and/or showing, but still they are purebreds, even if some traits are genetic issues, as if people have two toned skin (i really dont know the correct name) that doesnt make them less human......

[IRescue452]

Sorry, I had to run to class. I couldn't finish. Anyway what I'm getting from all of this is that if white were the only shown color of human, then we wouldn't consider a black person human? They'd be worthless. Such as a lab that isn't the three show colours is a worthless creature that somehow isn't considered a labrador.

Husky mom: you are getting to extremes. I mean if a lab was born with no tail then by all means I'd say to neuter it. The colouring doesn't change the structure of the dog. One might not want to breed your husky or shepherd example, but I see nothing wrong with breeding white shepherds.

Suki: I know dogs aren't humans, they are objects we use to our working advantage. I don't quite get the illustration you were talking about either. I just don't get why can't we breed a silver labrador if thats what we want to use, for show or work. In fact I don't get kennel clubs at all. According to the AKC, there are many breeds that don't exist. The Hanoverian hound for one, does indeed exist, but according to AKC breeders there is no such dog. And a labrador that's silver in colour is not a dog. Strange lot of people they are indeed.

[Suki Wingy]

Dogs are not humans.

I am technically a mutt, but I'm also a human! Same way horses who are crossbred regularly compete, they are accepted in their sport, other than conformation. If you breed a dog for show and you get a silver, I say spay it and give it a good home. With all the overpopulation of dogs though, I don't believe in breeding dogs just for pets. If you wanted a pet only you could go to the shelter.
That is my view and I am done with this thread.

[cali]

it has to fit to the breed standard. i don't see why this is so hard to understand.

why. WHO says that they must fit the breed stardard? you? the people who make their living with beauty contests? why? just cuz they say so? and why should I listen to them or you? why are only you guys correct and the people with dogs that can actually DO the work wrong? please enlighten me as to why my whippet built, flop eared, extra fine boned border collie cant herd? (and she can by the way, she was dropped on sheep after 5 years of city living and right off the bat was herding better then the expeirenced dogs) and please explain how conformation has imporoved the bearded collie, and wehn people see then bouncing and barking at sheep the response is "oh thats how they are supposed to herd" thats odd because actually beardies were originally more like a wire coated BC and worked like BCs, in fact the 2 breeds used to be freely interbred.

[Husky_mom]

dont get me wrong i just gave examples that dont make a breed less breed, not that they should be bred, of course not, spay/neuter, but with color as in shepherds it took a while to get them accepted, they where present but not suitable for show and maybe silver labs will get their place as they had before as a variation of "chocolates", and as cali mentioned beauty contest..... in humans it doesnt mean we "need" to look like them, it just a "standard" for "beauty" that some people made and try to keep that way, that doesnt mean other people who are different are not pretty or human......

[Allecto]

Dogs are not humans, don't treat them like one.

He made an assertion about recessive genetics and 'nature'. I simply extended it. That is all.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

If silver labradors were proven to be purebred would you breed them? You are acting the same way breeders did when chocolate labradors were first bred.

[dab_20]

well i dont see the problem. if they were bred for hunting what does there color matter?? i think they are too strict on colors for alot of breeds.

my friends mom told my my cocker puppy coulden't be shown because he has white markings on his black back. who cares!!

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Torner, you say silvers are more prone to certain auto-immune disorders... if true, that would make me more inclined to believe that at least a portion of silver labs are purebred genetic flukes. It seems like a crossbreed wouldn't be consistantly developing the same genetic defect, but maybe that's just me.

i didn't say silvers are propense to develop this diseases. i said BLUE colored dogs are. of course they wouldn't develop deseases due to the variety of genetic code from different breeds crosses.

Also, if a color occurs in less than 25% of the population, it is unnatural?! Where the heck do you get that from, and how do you back it up? By that argument, all red-headed humans are fake and unnatural. I guess they must be crossed with orangutans or something . Since none of us can prove they're not, I call for the sterilization of all red-heads!

that kind of sarcasm and comparissons are just the last resource for people who don't have anything to say. DOGS ARE NOT EQUAL TO HUMAS. they can be part of the family and loved pets, but not humas.

dog population and human population are different. i'm not talking about labs as a species, but as breed. it's stupid to say that red headed humans are not humans!!!!
i'll correct your example: if both your parents, and your grand parents, and 20 generations before you are white skined, and have blonde hair, wouldn't it be unnatural to your family line if you were borned black?????
by your response, i do think you could be part orangutan.

You aren't an expert, so just ask me if I need to point out the differences and similarities.

oh..and you are? lol. at least i'm geeting my masters degree on coat color genetics.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Sorry, I had to run to class. I couldn't finish. Anyway what I'm getting from all of this is that if white were the only shown color of human, then we wouldn't consider a black person human? They'd be worthless. Such as a lab that isn't the three show colours is a worthless creature that somehow isn't considered a labrador.

Suki: I know dogs aren't humans, they are objects we use to our working advantage. I don't quite get the illustration you were talking about either. I just don't get why can't we breed a silver labrador if thats what we want to use, for show or work. In fact I don't get kennel clubs at all. According to the AKC, there are many breeds that don't exist. The Hanoverian hound for one, does indeed exist, but according to AKC breeders there is no such dog. And a labrador that's silver in colour is not a dog. Strange lot of people they are indeed.

no one is saying they're worthless. don't get so passionated about it.

please, READ and UNDERSTAND. your example of the hanoverian hound is silly. the AKC doesn't say that is not a breed, it just doesn't recognize it.
labradoodles is a new trend breed as well....just don't recognized by experts and organisms around the world.

you really should stop blaming all to breeders, it's not good for you. see the bigger picture! there are parent clubs to the breed who dictate what a lab should look like.