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Well could your trained eye please point the differances out to me.the pics you posted are the reason why this people bred weimaraners to labs. because they look alike so much. you need to have a trained eye to note the differences
How so? If it's bred with a Weim, wouldn't they all be silver.
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They can still produce correct colors. Just because it is not the right color, does not mean it is not part Weim. This is apparent in a lot of mixed breed dogs. A Weim/Vizsla cross could produce both Silver and Red dogs.Originally Posted by CagneyDog
Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?
Whether or not they look like Weims is not it. A lot of them do, some don't. My point is, we do not know if they are part Weim or not, so they should not be bred until we can rule that out. And where did you get those pictures? Does that person show their dogs? Health test? Where did the dogs come from? A reputable breeder, or a puppy mill? You can't just pull images off of google and say that they're purebreds because their mom looks like it. I know of a few dogs who look purebred when they are mixed breeds. The Weim in her could be far enough back that they still produce Silver but look more like Labs.
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No, of course not.
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A quote from the website where you (CagneyDog) got the picture of mom and pups:
They do not know this dog's lineage. He should have never be bred. So you can rule this breeder out as responsible.They started breeding labs after Marcie rescued their now stud dog Buddy from someone that had neglected him and tied him up on a short rope in a cement stall in a cow barn. He was 2 years old, untrained, not housebroke and on his way to the animal shelter when Marcie found him on this farm. To make a long story short, Buddy has come a long way and he and Marcie are practically inseparable.
...and Corgi krazy, too!
This is so frickin OT, hehe, but I really really agree with you, Sarah! My friend has an amazing field-bred chocolate Lab named Tango, and I see incredible difference between her and just about every other Lab I see (which are either show-bred or BYB-bred). She's about half the size of my other friends championed show Lab (Im sorry - he looks unnaturally obese to me.) and her temperament is much, much different. Gonzo really despises 99% of the Labs he meets, because they are just so goofy and aloof, but he loves Tango, because she's just incredibly different and is actually very alert and less all over the place. I would personally never be able to handle a show or BYB-bred Lab, because I really value attentiveness and sensitivity in a dog (my BC spoils meh) but I'd love to have a Lab with Tango's personality. Several people I know have Labs who are sweet dogs, but just do not listen to a word their owners say. Tango actually has an Obedience title, too, which is not common with show-types as far as I've seen, and she qualified in every trial she's been in.
mehhhh, anyway... Cagney, I really don't see any "proof" in those pics. Honestly, it does not matter to me if they're purebreds or not. They aren't recognized. It's certaintly possible for a chocolate Lab bred to a Weim to produce "silver Labs" and "choco Labs". I think that if this "dilution" was actually that common in the breed, it WOULD at least be recognized by now. And, dilution of chocolate does not produce silver, it produces fawn or isabella, which is technically light chocolate. Dilution of black produces "blue". The AKC is not against accepting diluted colors, which is why fawn and blue Dobermans are accepted and shown. To me, the proof isn't there so I'm going to have to say it's not legit. Especially since all of the kennel links posted are to kennels that exclusively breed for silver coloring, which is a red flag.
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Mmmmk, I'm done with this thread.
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My BYB Lab (Nova) has that temperment to a tee. Luka is pretty close, but is a little stubborn (though we are working on this). That is what a field Lab's temperment is supposed to be like. It's why I love them so much! I will get a well-bred Field Lab one day, but it will be when I live on my own and can run more trials with them. My dogs are field-bred as far as I know, judging by looks, drive (they loooove hunting), and temperment. But at the same time they don't really know what they're missing, and I can't fit frequent field trials into my life while in school, so they are fine for now
And I agree with what you just said, too!
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i just did in page 6.
it wouldn't all be silver...in fact, you could get even a black one.
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I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion."
Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton
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WELL, THAT'S A POOR WAY TO END A DISCUSSION. HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED GENETICS?
i bet you haven't, as well as you haven't studied or devoted your life to the lab breed.
please, take a genetics book and learn about coat coloration. by the way, it is not naturall for labs to come in a variety of colors, otherwise this colors would be recognizad, as they are for the chihuahua or amstaff.
you're being kinda redundant. it is pretty obvious that color is the issue here, that's what silver lab's are about: a color trait introduced by a cross with another breed.
and, too bad for you, those dog's will never be recognized as purebreds by professional breeders around the world, not by the akc, not by the FCI, etc. do you really think you're smarter than all of the reputable breeders in the world? or that you're right and all those people are wrong? have you ever been to a lab specialty? have you ever bred silver labs from purebred chocolate labs to say they really exist? do you know why is it that they only exist in america?
give me a break!
don't be too clever about what you say you know.
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You're being defensive and making yourself sound important, but did you bring any relevent evidence in with that last post? Stick to the subject.
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion."
Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton
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Torner Retrievers are those your dogs in the photos of "Correct Labradors"?
Rhi *Hooman* Clover *Rottie x ACD* (RIP to my BRD) Elvis and Tinny *The BCs* & Harri *JRT* Luna *BC x*
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which photos are you refering to?
if you're talking about the ones with the weimaraners, no...those are not my dogs. those are to show how breeder's and the AKC parent club of the breed think the ideal lab should be.
my dogs appear at the 2nd or 3rd page i believe, as attachments
Last edited by TORNER RETRIEVERS; 01-11-2006 at 12:07 PM.
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i'm not being defensive. it's a lot different if you feel attacked with me asking you about your knowledge on genetics.
and what's your response? "STICK TO THE SUBJECT".
COME ON!!! LOL. if you knew anything at all about the matter, as you pretend us to believe, you'd have come with a better reply. LOL
sadly for you, i did bring a correction to your arguement:
the breed standard for the labrador retriever does not recognize a variety of colors (as you imply by saying these come naturally to labs), because labradors have never come in a variety of colors. Black an tan, brindle coloration, silver, blue, etc. are considered to be disqualification mismarks. it has been this way since the beginning of the breed, unlike what silver lab breeders intend to make us believe.
for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.
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OK EVERYONE. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW (SINCE A LOT OF YOU ASK ME WHY BREEDERS AND MYSELF DON'T BELIEVE IN SILVER COLORATION). HERE'S THE INFORMATION ABOUT DILUTED COLORS:
Blue is actually diluted Black, Lilac is actually diluted Chocolate, and Fawn is
actually diluted Cinnamon.
SILVER IS NOT DILUTED CHOCOLATE. Silver is its own gene, as found in weimaraners.
as far as health...blue coloration (there are people selling blue and silver "labs") has a tendency to produce unique auto immune or coat problems.
here's a picture of coloration in shar peis (i couldn't find any other breed with black, blue, chocolate an lilac together in a single photo).
from left to right: black, blue (diluted black), lilac (diluted chocolate), chocolate.
note the difference in coloration between the lilac (above) and the silver (below). besides, note that the black puppy (below) has different type (has a wider head and shorter muzzle than the "silver" and the blue ones).
Here are other photos to compare
LILAC SHR PEI
BLUE SHAR PEI
SILVER LAB
(still don't see weimaraner in it?)
Last edited by TORNER RETRIEVERS; 01-11-2006 at 01:03 PM.
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