Say No To Silver Labs

[IRescue452]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

WELL, THAT'S A POOR WAY TO END A DISCUSSION. HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED GENETICS?
i bet you haven't, as well as you haven't studied or devoted your life to the lab breed.

please, take a genetics book and learn about coat coloration. by the way, it is not naturall for labs to come in a variety of colors, otherwise this colors would be recognizad, as they are for the chihuahua or amstaff.

you're being kinda redundant. it is pretty obvious that color is the issue here, that's what silver lab's are about: a color trait introduced by a cross with another breed.
and, too bad for you, those dog's will never be recognized as purebreds by professional breeders around the world, not by the akc, not by the FCI, etc. do you really think you're smarter than all of the reputable breeders in the world? or that you're right and all those people are wrong? have you ever been to a lab specialty? have you ever bred silver labs from purebred chocolate labs to say they really exist? do you know why is it that they only exist in america?

give me a break!

don't be too clever about what you say you know.

[IRescue452]

You're being defensive and making yourself sound important, but did you bring any relevent evidence in with that last post? Stick to the subject.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

You're being defensive and making yourself sound important, but did you bring any relevent evidence in with that last post? Stick to the subject.

i'm not being defensive. it's a lot different if you feel attacked with me asking you about your knowledge on genetics.
and what's your response? "STICK TO THE SUBJECT".

COME ON!!! LOL. if you knew anything at all about the matter, as you pretend us to believe, you'd have come with a better reply. LOL

sadly for you, i did bring a correction to your arguement:
the breed standard for the labrador retriever does not recognize a variety of colors (as you imply by saying these come naturally to labs), because labradors have never come in a variety of colors. Black an tan, brindle coloration, silver, blue, etc. are considered to be disqualification mismarks. it has been this way since the beginning of the breed, unlike what silver lab breeders intend to make us believe.

for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

OK EVERYONE. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW (SINCE A LOT OF YOU ASK ME WHY BREEDERS AND MYSELF DON'T BELIEVE IN SILVER COLORATION). HERE'S THE INFORMATION ABOUT DILUTED COLORS:

Blue is actually diluted Black, Lilac is actually diluted Chocolate, and Fawn is
actually diluted Cinnamon.

SILVER IS NOT DILUTED CHOCOLATE. Silver is its own gene, as found in weimaraners.

as far as health...blue coloration (there are people selling blue and silver "labs") has a tendency to produce unique auto immune or coat problems.

here's a picture of coloration in shar peis (i couldn't find any other breed with black, blue, chocolate an lilac together in a single photo).

from left to right: black, blue (diluted black), lilac (diluted chocolate), chocolate.

note the difference in coloration between the lilac (above) and the silver (below). besides, note that the black puppy (below) has different type (has a wider head and shorter muzzle than the "silver" and the blue ones).

Here are other photos to compare

LILAC SHR PEI

BLUE SHAR PEI

SILVER LAB

(still don't see weimaraner in it?)

[IRescue452]

for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.

A colour can't appear that often when only 3 colours are line bred by show breeders. If you put all colours of labs together and let them breed without human interference for enough time to overcome many years of line breeding you'd come across a pertenent palette of natural colouring. Of course this is never going to happen, nor should it. I'm not saying that these colors will be 25% of the population, I'm just saying they would come along and still be purebred and still be labradors.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

for a color to be natural, it would have to appear at least in the 25% of the general population.

A colour can't appear that often when only 3 colours are line bred by show breeders. If you put all colours of labs together and let them breed without human interference for enough time to overcome many years of line breeding you'd come across a pertenent palette of natural colouring. Of course this is never going to happen, nor should it. I'm not saying that these colors will be 25% of the population, I'm just saying they would come along and still be purebred and still be labradors.

well if we let every breed to reproduce without control and without following the breed standard....we wouldn't have any breed at all!!!

they certainly wouldn't still be labradors. a brindle, B&T, silver, blue, etc.. would be a dog which's parents are labradors. for a dog to be considered as a lab, it has to fit to the breed standard. i don't see why this is so hard to understand.

it seems like you don't understand the relation breeder-standard. you keep saying that breeders are the ones that don't like or don't accept this or that color. it's not the breeders. it's the breed standard. i've seen breeders go through hell because they had their hopes up for that planned litter in which there's a B&T or a brindle, which by the way, turns out to be show quality except for the color. so they have to neuter it and give it to a good home. i've seen them let out a tear or two during this events. it's heart breaking, but that's not the point. the point is that some people, a 100 yeras ago (moreless) created a breed to perform and look one specific way. they parent club has published a specific standard and it has to be followed, to preserve the type, soundness and skills of the labrador.

[Allecto]

Torner, you say silvers are more prone to certain auto-immune disorders... if true, that would make me more inclined to believe that at least a portion of silver labs are purebred genetic flukes. It seems like a crossbreed wouldn't be consistantly developing the same genetic defect, but maybe that's just me.


Also, if a color occurs in less than 25% of the population, it is unnatural?! Where the heck do you get that from, and how do you back it up? By that argument, all red-headed humans are fake and unnatural. I guess they must be crossed with orangutans or something . Since none of us can prove they're not, I call for the sterilization of all red-heads!

You aren't an expert, so just ask me if I need to point out the differences and similarities:







"No good dog is a bad color" -- Max von Stephanitz

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Torner, you say silvers are more prone to certain auto-immune disorders... if true, that would make me more inclined to believe that at least a portion of silver labs are purebred genetic flukes. It seems like a crossbreed wouldn't be consistantly developing the same genetic defect, but maybe that's just me.

i didn't say silvers are propense to develop this diseases. i said BLUE colored dogs are. of course they wouldn't develop deseases due to the variety of genetic code from different breeds crosses.

Also, if a color occurs in less than 25% of the population, it is unnatural?! Where the heck do you get that from, and how do you back it up? By that argument, all red-headed humans are fake and unnatural. I guess they must be crossed with orangutans or something . Since none of us can prove they're not, I call for the sterilization of all red-heads!

that kind of sarcasm and comparissons are just the last resource for people who don't have anything to say. DOGS ARE NOT EQUAL TO HUMAS. they can be part of the family and loved pets, but not humas.

dog population and human population are different. i'm not talking about labs as a species, but as breed. it's stupid to say that red headed humans are not humans!!!!
i'll correct your example: if both your parents, and your grand parents, and 20 generations before you are white skined, and have blonde hair, wouldn't it be unnatural to your family line if you were borned black?????
by your response, i do think you could be part orangutan.

You aren't an expert, so just ask me if I need to point out the differences and similarities.

oh..and you are? lol. at least i'm geeting my masters degree on coat color genetics.