Say No To Silver Labs

[.sarah]

haha thats the funnest thing I have ever heard! have you SEEN the dogs from even 50? 60? years ago they look NOTHING like the the dogs currently look.

there is only one way to truly preserve a breed. and that is to breed for working ability. why? because if dogs had a certain look it was a direct result of their work, if you start breeding only for the look then you loose the ability as well as start over emphizing featurs. if you breed for the work, you keep the look AND the ability. case in point I found a pictures of the very first cattle working border collie..the dog is nearly itentical to misty..a current cattle bred BC.

Wow, you don't have to be sarcastic with everything you say. I said 100 years from now, that's in the future, not in the past. Please stop being so rude in your posts.

[bckrazy]

I have only seen silver Labs being sold by BYB's, so I am just assuming that they are not legit. However, if they are, breeders still shouldn't be breeding to encourage this at all. It's kind of like breeding "white" Dobermans and GSD's, completely off of the breed standard. Dogs should be shown, IMHO, to prove their physical soundness and adherence to the standard. Why even have a kennel club or registry if there are no shows to prove the best of breeding stock? If a Lab is silver and not accepted, it obviously cannot be shown, and therefor cannot be proven as sound-bodied breeding stock. period.

I agree with you, Cali, BUT up to a certain point. If every breeder had no regard at all for appearance in dogs and only focused on performance, there would be many many flaws showing up and the specific appearance of many breeds would be lost. I believe very strongly in breeding for working ability AND structure, because working ability alone just won't preserve the classic appearance that people love about all of the dog breeds.

[.sarah]

I have only seen silver Labs being sold by BYB's, so I am just assuming that they are not legit. However, if they are, breeders still shouldn't be breeding to encourage this at all. It's kind of like breeding "white" Dobermans and GSD's, completely off of the breed standard. Dogs should be shown, IMHO, to prove their physical soundness and adherence to the standard. Why even have a kennel club or registry if there are no shows to prove the best of breeding stock? If a Lab is silver and not accepted, it obviously cannot be shown, and therefor cannot be proven as sound-bodied breeding stock. period.

I agree with you, Cali, BUT up to a certain point. If every breeder had no regard at all for appearance in dogs and only focused on performance, there would be many many flaws showing up and the specific appearance of many breeds would be lost. I believe very strongly in breeding for working ability AND structure, because working ability alone just won't preserve the classic appearance that people love about all of the dog breeds.

Thank you, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

[QUOTE=IRescue452]Of all the silver lab pictures I've seen, I've not once seen one that looks like it has weim in it. They are a dilute chocolate lab and fit the standard to a tee. Its like saying a brindle dalmatian has pit bull in it.

okay...look at this pictures and tell me you really don't see weimaraner in it.

[cali]

I did not mean to sound so rude, I just hear that kind of thing all the time, and it annoys the heck out of me. my point is that if the dogs have changed so much despite the stadrads in the past why on earth would it not continue to change in the future? I was using the past as an example, the standards make no difference because there will always be fads, when there is a fad you suddenly get a million dogs from one line, and suddenly the look is not the same as it was a generation or 2 before. breeds are constantly changing in look despite the stardards.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

and yet there are show bred and feild bred which look nothing alike aint that funny?

actually it's not funny. please, take a look to the sites of reputable breeders and find out that they also have hunting champions which look as they're suposed to.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

I did not mean to sound so rude, I just hear that kind of thing all the time, and it annoys the heck out of me. my point is that if the dogs have changed so much despite the stadrads in the past why on earth would it not continue to change in the future? I was using the past as an example, the standards make no difference because there will always be fads, when there is a fad you suddenly get a million dogs from one line, and suddenly the look is not the same as it was a generation or 2 before. breeds are constantly changing in look despite the stardards.

they don't change despite the standard...the vary in lines and breeder's preferences, but in the end, they all need to stick to the breed standard.

[.sarah]

actually it's not funny. please, take a look to the sites of reputable breeders and find out that they also have hunting champions which look as they're suposed to.

If you could please direct me to those sites ... I hardly *ever* see Show Labs that hunt as well. I think that's awesome! I don't like it when the dog is only shown in conformation and comes from conformation lines only. I see that far too often with this breed. I already don't consider Show Labs to be the same breed as Field Labs, because they are so different.

[cali]

oh I know there are some show dogs that can work, but the work should be the primarly goal, if one wants to breed for a certain look it should be secondary to the work itself. the orgilnal intent of the conformation ring was to judge working dogs on their outward appearence, then some poeple got competive and decided to ignore the work and focas on the look, this is where the split began, then the people who started breeding for the certain look began to dominate in that aspect, and shadowed out the working bred, they atrted to believe that they were supierior, yet its they they deviated from the the real breed.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

If you could please direct me to those sites ... I hardly *ever* see Show Labs that hunt as well. I think that's awesome! I don't like it when the dog is only shown in conformation and comes from conformation lines only. I see that far too often with this breed. I already don't consider Show Labs to be the same breed as Field Labs, because they are so different.

These are a few labs with retrieving skills and good conformation. (i'll be adding as i'm finding them)

http://www.dickendall.com/tim.html
http://www.dickendall.com/chuck.html
http://www.dickendall.com/anslo.html
http://www.dickendall.com/drifter.html
http://www.dickendall.com/remmy.html
http://www.dickendall.com/ruffy.html
http://www.dickendall.com/orange.html
http://www.dickendall.com/arnold.html

http://www.belquest.com/aaron.html
http://www.belquest.com/knight.html

http://www.windfalllabs.com/Abbey/index.htm
http://www.windfalllabs.com/stormy/index.htm

http://www.hyspire.com/bandit.html

[CagneyDog]

I have never heard of a Silver Lab coming from a breeding of two normal color Labs by reputable breeders

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

Exactly, it's not proven. You shouldn't breed Silver Labs if you can't prove they aren't bred with Weimeraner. There is no proof at the moment. I for one do not like Weimeraners and do not want my Lab to have Weim in it.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

[.sarah]

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

That is not what I said. What I am saying is that I do not know of Silver Labs coming from normal colored parents from reputable breeders. This excludes people who breed Silver exclusively and BYBs.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

Because they look like they have it in them. I don't think that they should be bred until there is proof that they are purebred Labs. And you just said it yourself, there is no proof either way. If you purchased a Silver Lab from a "reputable" breeder wouldn't you be pissed if proof later came out that they were cross bred with Weims? I would be.

[CagneyDog]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

oh I know there are some show dogs that can work, but the work should be the primarly goal, if one wants to breed for a certain look it should be secondary to the work itself. the orgilnal intent of the conformation ring was to judge working dogs on their outward appearence, then some poeple got competive and decided to ignore the work and focas on the look, this is where the split began, then the people who started breeding for the certain look began to dominate in that aspect, and shadowed out the working bred, they atrted to believe that they were supierior, yet its they they deviated from the the real breed.

i'm sorry, but i think you have no idea what a beauty show is.
yes, breeds were made to achieve certain goals such as herding, hunting, retrieveing, etc.
when people stopped hunting for a living these breeds we're drastically reduced, until a bunch of people with a lot of money decided to give life to the breed once again.

without the necessity for hunting dogs, this group of people decided to compete for beauty, creating different lines to "fill the eye" of type judges. this got a little out of hand and then they realized that these dogs still needed the skills which they're bred to have.

so..don't be so sure that skills are the only purpose of a dog. if had it been that way, we wouldn't have any working breed this days.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

[IMG]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

ABSOLUTELY YES...there would still be chocolate littermates.

the pics you posted are the reason why this people bred weimaraners to labs. because they look alike so much. you need to have a trained eye to note the differences.

compare the two breeds...

this is what happens with two well reproduced breeds. you can tell the difference

but when you have two badly reproduced breeds...it's hard to say

now, let alone when they're puppies

this two breeds combined:

the so-called Silverlab!!!!!