Say No To Silver Labs

[.sarah]

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

This isn't directed at you Cali I just wanted to quote you.

The Labs actually do look very different now than when they were first bred. The Field Labs are more what the original Labs looked like. I love Show Labs though they are not for me, as they are not really bred to do anything in most cases (but not all). Conformationally sounds Labs are generally bred for companionship. I cannot name one Lab breeder who shows their dogs in conformation that also runs field trials. This really bothers me, to tell you the truth, because the dogs are bred basically to look pretty. They are in the sporting group for a reason!

There is talk to split the breed, because the two types are so different. I am for it but also against it, because I know that the Field Labs will start to be bred for looks only, and that is not what the breed is there for. However Field Labs are so diverse in looks that it would be nice for breeders to have to adhere to a standard as well as hunting ability.

[CagneyDog]

I have never heard of a Silver Lab coming from a breeding of two normal color Labs by reputable breeders

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

Exactly, it's not proven. You shouldn't breed Silver Labs if you can't prove they aren't bred with Weimeraner. There is no proof at the moment. I for one do not like Weimeraners and do not want my Lab to have Weim in it.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

[.sarah]

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

That is not what I said. What I am saying is that I do not know of Silver Labs coming from normal colored parents from reputable breeders. This excludes people who breed Silver exclusively and BYBs.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

Because they look like they have it in them. I don't think that they should be bred until there is proof that they are purebred Labs. And you just said it yourself, there is no proof either way. If you purchased a Silver Lab from a "reputable" breeder wouldn't you be pissed if proof later came out that they were cross bred with Weims? I would be.

[CagneyDog]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

[IMG]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

ABSOLUTELY YES...there would still be chocolate littermates.

the pics you posted are the reason why this people bred weimaraners to labs. because they look alike so much. you need to have a trained eye to note the differences.

compare the two breeds...

this is what happens with two well reproduced breeds. you can tell the difference

but when you have two badly reproduced breeds...it's hard to say

now, let alone when they're puppies

this two breeds combined:

the so-called Silverlab!!!!!

[CagneyDog]

the pics you posted are the reason why this people bred weimaraners to labs. because they look alike so much. you need to have a trained eye to note the differences

Well could your trained eye please point the differances out to me.

How so? If it's bred with a Weim, wouldn't they all be silver.

[.sarah]

How so? If it's bred with a Weim, wouldn't they all be silver.

No, of course not.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Well could your trained eye please point the differances out to me.

How so? If it's bred with a Weim, wouldn't they all be silver.

i just did in page 6.

it wouldn't all be silver...in fact, you could get even a black one.

[bckrazy]

This is so frickin OT, hehe, but I really really agree with you, Sarah! My friend has an amazing field-bred chocolate Lab named Tango, and I see incredible difference between her and just about every other Lab I see (which are either show-bred or BYB-bred). She's about half the size of my other friends championed show Lab (Im sorry - he looks unnaturally obese to me.) and her temperament is much, much different. Gonzo really despises 99% of the Labs he meets, because they are just so goofy and aloof, but he loves Tango, because she's just incredibly different and is actually very alert and less all over the place. I would personally never be able to handle a show or BYB-bred Lab, because I really value attentiveness and sensitivity in a dog (my BC spoils meh) but I'd love to have a Lab with Tango's personality. Several people I know have Labs who are sweet dogs, but just do not listen to a word their owners say. Tango actually has an Obedience title, too, which is not common with show-types as far as I've seen, and she qualified in every trial she's been in.

mehhhh, anyway... Cagney, I really don't see any "proof" in those pics. Honestly, it does not matter to me if they're purebreds or not. They aren't recognized. It's certaintly possible for a chocolate Lab bred to a Weim to produce "silver Labs" and "choco Labs". I think that if this "dilution" was actually that common in the breed, it WOULD at least be recognized by now. And, dilution of chocolate does not produce silver, it produces fawn or isabella, which is technically light chocolate. Dilution of black produces "blue". The AKC is not against accepting diluted colors, which is why fawn and blue Dobermans are accepted and shown. To me, the proof isn't there so I'm going to have to say it's not legit. Especially since all of the kennel links posted are to kennels that exclusively breed for silver coloring, which is a red flag.

[CagneyDog]

Mmmmk, I'm done with this thread.

[.sarah]

This is so frickin OT, hehe, but I really really agree with you, Sarah! My friend has an amazing field-bred chocolate Lab named Tango, and I see incredible difference between her and just about every other Lab I see (which are either show-bred or BYB-bred). She's about half the size of my other friends championed show Lab (Im sorry - he looks unnaturally obese to me.) and her temperament is much, much different. Gonzo really despises 99% of the Labs he meets, because they are just so goofy and aloof, but he loves Tango, because she's just incredibly different and is actually very alert and less all over the place. I would personally never be able to handle a show or BYB-bred Lab, because I really value attentiveness and sensitivity in a dog (my BC spoils meh) but I'd love to have a Lab with Tango's personality. Several people I know have Labs who are sweet dogs, but just do not listen to a word their owners say. Tango actually has an Obedience title, too, which is not common with show-types as far as I've seen, and she qualified in every trial she's been in.

My BYB Lab (Nova) has that temperment to a tee. Luka is pretty close, but is a little stubborn (though we are working on this). That is what a field Lab's temperment is supposed to be like. It's why I love them so much! I will get a well-bred Field Lab one day, but it will be when I live on my own and can run more trials with them. My dogs are field-bred as far as I know, judging by looks, drive (they loooove hunting), and temperment. But at the same time they don't really know what they're missing, and I can't fit frequent field trials into my life while in school, so they are fine for now

And I agree with what you just said, too!

[.sarah]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

They can still produce correct colors. Just because it is not the right color, does not mean it is not part Weim. This is apparent in a lot of mixed breed dogs. A Weim/Vizsla cross could produce both Silver and Red dogs.

Whether or not they look like Weims is not it. A lot of them do, some don't. My point is, we do not know if they are part Weim or not, so they should not be bred until we can rule that out. And where did you get those pictures? Does that person show their dogs? Health test? Where did the dogs come from? A reputable breeder, or a puppy mill? You can't just pull images off of google and say that they're purebreds because their mom looks like it. I know of a few dogs who look purebred when they are mixed breeds. The Weim in her could be far enough back that they still produce Silver but look more like Labs.

[IRescue452]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

WELL, THAT'S A POOR WAY TO END A DISCUSSION. HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED GENETICS?
i bet you haven't, as well as you haven't studied or devoted your life to the lab breed.

please, take a genetics book and learn about coat coloration. by the way, it is not naturall for labs to come in a variety of colors, otherwise this colors would be recognizad, as they are for the chihuahua or amstaff.

you're being kinda redundant. it is pretty obvious that color is the issue here, that's what silver lab's are about: a color trait introduced by a cross with another breed.
and, too bad for you, those dog's will never be recognized as purebreds by professional breeders around the world, not by the akc, not by the FCI, etc. do you really think you're smarter than all of the reputable breeders in the world? or that you're right and all those people are wrong? have you ever been to a lab specialty? have you ever bred silver labs from purebred chocolate labs to say they really exist? do you know why is it that they only exist in america?

give me a break!

don't be too clever about what you say you know.

[IRescue452]

You're being defensive and making yourself sound important, but did you bring any relevent evidence in with that last post? Stick to the subject.