Say No To Silver Labs

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Thank you cali. I don't understand why these people are so against breeding a black and tan lab or any other mismark. Its still a quality lab. Some people say they should be spayed or neutered for population reasons, but the breeder could just as well produce as many puppies in black as they could in an "unaccepted" colour. If the puppies are black, yellow, or chocolate than its ok to add to the population, but not if they are another colour? None of the arguements I've seen on this thread are logical.

the reason why reputable breeders and parent club of the breed are so against to the silver color is because there's a breed standard that is very specific about coloring and mismarks.

this standard was made for people to know how a lab should look like, not for some unethical bunch of people who make a living out of genetical alterations. i personally think that it's unffair to responsible and professional breeders that this people get away with it, just because there are ignorant and extreme dog lovers who wouldn't see the point. that means that a life devoted to improve the breed is useless, because in the end those are just dogs.

so you're telling me that (for example) if someone was to destroy the great dane as a breed, by making crosses with chihuahuas and creating a new breed called "miniature great dane", it would still be okay? after all, they're still dogs which deserve to be loved and it's a trendy new breed. a few generations later, you would be able to get a miniature great dane from two pure bred great danes.

just because people tend to have dogs and make stupid breedings, doesn't mean that people should fall for the lie and let this keep happening.
there's a reason for everything. our reason, as responsible breeders that we are, is to keep the breed as it should be, as how the pioneers of the breed intended it to be. they deserve our respect for their work of a lifetime.

[cali]

is to keep the breed as it should be, as how the pioneers of the breed intended it to be. they deserve our respect for their work of a lifetime.

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

i'm sorry to let you down, but they're made to retrieve as well as to look. there are tons of breeds which can retrieve, there are also mutts which can retrieve. the looks of the labrador are what makes them unique, a single breed.

[cali]

and yet there are show bred and feild bred which look nothing alike aint that funny?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

and yet there are show bred and feild bred which look nothing alike aint that funny?

actually it's not funny. please, take a look to the sites of reputable breeders and find out that they also have hunting champions which look as they're suposed to.

[.sarah]

actually it's not funny. please, take a look to the sites of reputable breeders and find out that they also have hunting champions which look as they're suposed to.

If you could please direct me to those sites ... I hardly *ever* see Show Labs that hunt as well. I think that's awesome! I don't like it when the dog is only shown in conformation and comes from conformation lines only. I see that far too often with this breed. I already don't consider Show Labs to be the same breed as Field Labs, because they are so different.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

If you could please direct me to those sites ... I hardly *ever* see Show Labs that hunt as well. I think that's awesome! I don't like it when the dog is only shown in conformation and comes from conformation lines only. I see that far too often with this breed. I already don't consider Show Labs to be the same breed as Field Labs, because they are so different.

These are a few labs with retrieving skills and good conformation. (i'll be adding as i'm finding them)

http://www.dickendall.com/tim.html
http://www.dickendall.com/chuck.html
http://www.dickendall.com/anslo.html
http://www.dickendall.com/drifter.html
http://www.dickendall.com/remmy.html
http://www.dickendall.com/ruffy.html
http://www.dickendall.com/orange.html
http://www.dickendall.com/arnold.html

http://www.belquest.com/aaron.html
http://www.belquest.com/knight.html

http://www.windfalllabs.com/Abbey/index.htm
http://www.windfalllabs.com/stormy/index.htm

http://www.hyspire.com/bandit.html

[cali]

oh I know there are some show dogs that can work, but the work should be the primarly goal, if one wants to breed for a certain look it should be secondary to the work itself. the orgilnal intent of the conformation ring was to judge working dogs on their outward appearence, then some poeple got competive and decided to ignore the work and focas on the look, this is where the split began, then the people who started breeding for the certain look began to dominate in that aspect, and shadowed out the working bred, they atrted to believe that they were supierior, yet its they they deviated from the the real breed.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

oh I know there are some show dogs that can work, but the work should be the primarly goal, if one wants to breed for a certain look it should be secondary to the work itself. the orgilnal intent of the conformation ring was to judge working dogs on their outward appearence, then some poeple got competive and decided to ignore the work and focas on the look, this is where the split began, then the people who started breeding for the certain look began to dominate in that aspect, and shadowed out the working bred, they atrted to believe that they were supierior, yet its they they deviated from the the real breed.

i'm sorry, but i think you have no idea what a beauty show is.
yes, breeds were made to achieve certain goals such as herding, hunting, retrieveing, etc.
when people stopped hunting for a living these breeds we're drastically reduced, until a bunch of people with a lot of money decided to give life to the breed once again.

without the necessity for hunting dogs, this group of people decided to compete for beauty, creating different lines to "fill the eye" of type judges. this got a little out of hand and then they realized that these dogs still needed the skills which they're bred to have.

so..don't be so sure that skills are the only purpose of a dog. if had it been that way, we wouldn't have any working breed this days.

[.sarah]

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

This isn't directed at you Cali I just wanted to quote you.

The Labs actually do look very different now than when they were first bred. The Field Labs are more what the original Labs looked like. I love Show Labs though they are not for me, as they are not really bred to do anything in most cases (but not all). Conformationally sounds Labs are generally bred for companionship. I cannot name one Lab breeder who shows their dogs in conformation that also runs field trials. This really bothers me, to tell you the truth, because the dogs are bred basically to look pretty. They are in the sporting group for a reason!

There is talk to split the breed, because the two types are so different. I am for it but also against it, because I know that the Field Labs will start to be bred for looks only, and that is not what the breed is there for. However Field Labs are so diverse in looks that it would be nice for breeders to have to adhere to a standard as well as hunting ability.

[CagneyDog]

I have never heard of a Silver Lab coming from a breeding of two normal color Labs by reputable breeders

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

Exactly, it's not proven. You shouldn't breed Silver Labs if you can't prove they aren't bred with Weimeraner. There is no proof at the moment. I for one do not like Weimeraners and do not want my Lab to have Weim in it.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

[.sarah]

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

That is not what I said. What I am saying is that I do not know of Silver Labs coming from normal colored parents from reputable breeders. This excludes people who breed Silver exclusively and BYBs.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

Because they look like they have it in them. I don't think that they should be bred until there is proof that they are purebred Labs. And you just said it yourself, there is no proof either way. If you purchased a Silver Lab from a "reputable" breeder wouldn't you be pissed if proof later came out that they were cross bred with Weims? I would be.

[CagneyDog]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

[IMG]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

ABSOLUTELY YES...there would still be chocolate littermates.

the pics you posted are the reason why this people bred weimaraners to labs. because they look alike so much. you need to have a trained eye to note the differences.

compare the two breeds...

this is what happens with two well reproduced breeds. you can tell the difference

but when you have two badly reproduced breeds...it's hard to say

now, let alone when they're puppies

this two breeds combined:

the so-called Silverlab!!!!!

[.sarah]

Sure don't look like Weims to me. If it was part Weim why would it's litter mates be chocolate labs?

They can still produce correct colors. Just because it is not the right color, does not mean it is not part Weim. This is apparent in a lot of mixed breed dogs. A Weim/Vizsla cross could produce both Silver and Red dogs.

Whether or not they look like Weims is not it. A lot of them do, some don't. My point is, we do not know if they are part Weim or not, so they should not be bred until we can rule that out. And where did you get those pictures? Does that person show their dogs? Health test? Where did the dogs come from? A reputable breeder, or a puppy mill? You can't just pull images off of google and say that they're purebreds because their mom looks like it. I know of a few dogs who look purebred when they are mixed breeds. The Weim in her could be far enough back that they still produce Silver but look more like Labs.