Say No To Silver Labs

[cali]

newsflash! breeding for chocolate, yellow, and black IS breeding for COLOUR. if you were truly against breeding for colour then it would not even be factored into the equation, UNLESS it posed a health risk, but silver colour and mismarks dont affect the dogs ability to pick up a duck, until it inhibates the dogs ability to work, WHO CARES.

[IRescue452]

Thank you cali. I don't understand why these people are so against breeding a black and tan lab or any other mismark. Its still a quality lab. Some people say they should be spayed or neutered for population reasons, but the breeder could just as well produce as many puppies in black as they could in an "unaccepted" colour. If the puppies are black, yellow, or chocolate than its ok to add to the population, but not if they are another colour? None of the arguements I've seen on this thread are logical.

[Allecto]

My uneducated take on the situation:

There are silver labs that are beautiful purebreds no better or worse than any other lab based simply on the color of their fur. There are some breeders who accept this and are willing to include silvers in their breeding programs like any other color.

There are some silver labs created by crossbreeding to take a shortcut to this rare and beautiful variation. These dogs are, of course, no better or worse than any other lab mix, though I have some serious reservations about the breeders they come from.

And then there are a lot of breeders who won't accept any from the first group because the second group exists, and seems to be trying to convince people they are greatly inferior to other labs. This is beginning to give me some reservations baout these breeders as well.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Thank you cali. I don't understand why these people are so against breeding a black and tan lab or any other mismark. Its still a quality lab. Some people say they should be spayed or neutered for population reasons, but the breeder could just as well produce as many puppies in black as they could in an "unaccepted" colour. If the puppies are black, yellow, or chocolate than its ok to add to the population, but not if they are another colour? None of the arguements I've seen on this thread are logical.

the reason why reputable breeders and parent club of the breed are so against to the silver color is because there's a breed standard that is very specific about coloring and mismarks.

this standard was made for people to know how a lab should look like, not for some unethical bunch of people who make a living out of genetical alterations. i personally think that it's unffair to responsible and professional breeders that this people get away with it, just because there are ignorant and extreme dog lovers who wouldn't see the point. that means that a life devoted to improve the breed is useless, because in the end those are just dogs.

so you're telling me that (for example) if someone was to destroy the great dane as a breed, by making crosses with chihuahuas and creating a new breed called "miniature great dane", it would still be okay? after all, they're still dogs which deserve to be loved and it's a trendy new breed. a few generations later, you would be able to get a miniature great dane from two pure bred great danes.

just because people tend to have dogs and make stupid breedings, doesn't mean that people should fall for the lie and let this keep happening.
there's a reason for everything. our reason, as responsible breeders that we are, is to keep the breed as it should be, as how the pioneers of the breed intended it to be. they deserve our respect for their work of a lifetime.

[cali]

is to keep the breed as it should be, as how the pioneers of the breed intended it to be. they deserve our respect for their work of a lifetime.

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

i'm sorry to let you down, but they're made to retrieve as well as to look. there are tons of breeds which can retrieve, there are also mutts which can retrieve. the looks of the labrador are what makes them unique, a single breed.

[cali]

and yet there are show bred and feild bred which look nothing alike aint that funny?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

and yet there are show bred and feild bred which look nothing alike aint that funny?

actually it's not funny. please, take a look to the sites of reputable breeders and find out that they also have hunting champions which look as they're suposed to.

[.sarah]

your right the pioneers do deserve our respect and they deserve to have there breeds unchanged. too bad for you that they were bred to WORK a certain way, not LOOK a certain way.

This isn't directed at you Cali I just wanted to quote you.

The Labs actually do look very different now than when they were first bred. The Field Labs are more what the original Labs looked like. I love Show Labs though they are not for me, as they are not really bred to do anything in most cases (but not all). Conformationally sounds Labs are generally bred for companionship. I cannot name one Lab breeder who shows their dogs in conformation that also runs field trials. This really bothers me, to tell you the truth, because the dogs are bred basically to look pretty. They are in the sporting group for a reason!

There is talk to split the breed, because the two types are so different. I am for it but also against it, because I know that the Field Labs will start to be bred for looks only, and that is not what the breed is there for. However Field Labs are so diverse in looks that it would be nice for breeders to have to adhere to a standard as well as hunting ability.

[CagneyDog]

I have never heard of a Silver Lab coming from a breeding of two normal color Labs by reputable breeders

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

Exactly, it's not proven. You shouldn't breed Silver Labs if you can't prove they aren't bred with Weimeraner. There is no proof at the moment. I for one do not like Weimeraners and do not want my Lab to have Weim in it.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

[.sarah]

How many silver Lab breeders do you know well enough to judge the quality of their puppies?

That is not what I said. What I am saying is that I do not know of Silver Labs coming from normal colored parents from reputable breeders. This excludes people who breed Silver exclusively and BYBs.

Well this can go both ways. What I'm trying to get across is that people that are posting on this thread are biased to one opionin. It's not proven that there is Weim so WHY would you assume so? There is NO proof either way.

Because they look like they have it in them. I don't think that they should be bred until there is proof that they are purebred Labs. And you just said it yourself, there is no proof either way. If you purchased a Silver Lab from a "reputable" breeder wouldn't you be pissed if proof later came out that they were cross bred with Weims? I would be.

[IRescue452]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

I would not support breeding a chihuahua and a great dane or other designer breeds. I am speaking of a coat colour. Breeding other markings that the breed comes in is not creating a new breed nor changing anything about the build or health of the dog. It doesn't change the type or the working ability. The ONLY thing that changes is the coat colour. It is unnatural for labradors to come in yellow, chocolate, and black. It is line breeding done by show breeders. It is natural for labradors to come in other colours. So why not line breed a b&t or a brindle or a dilute colour? The only logical reason to not accept these dogs is because of the colour, because color is the ONLY difference in existence. You can't logically bring in any other arguements. Anything other arguement is irrational.

WELL, THAT'S A POOR WAY TO END A DISCUSSION. HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED GENETICS?
i bet you haven't, as well as you haven't studied or devoted your life to the lab breed.

please, take a genetics book and learn about coat coloration. by the way, it is not naturall for labs to come in a variety of colors, otherwise this colors would be recognizad, as they are for the chihuahua or amstaff.

you're being kinda redundant. it is pretty obvious that color is the issue here, that's what silver lab's are about: a color trait introduced by a cross with another breed.
and, too bad for you, those dog's will never be recognized as purebreds by professional breeders around the world, not by the akc, not by the FCI, etc. do you really think you're smarter than all of the reputable breeders in the world? or that you're right and all those people are wrong? have you ever been to a lab specialty? have you ever bred silver labs from purebred chocolate labs to say they really exist? do you know why is it that they only exist in america?

give me a break!

don't be too clever about what you say you know.

[cloverfdx]

Torner Retrievers are those your dogs in the photos of "Correct Labradors"?

[TORNER RETRIEVERS]

Torner Retrievers are those your dogs in the photos of "Correct Labradors"?

which photos are you refering to?
if you're talking about the ones with the weimaraners, no...those are not my dogs. those are to show how breeder's and the AKC parent club of the breed think the ideal lab should be.


my dogs appear at the 2nd or 3rd page i believe, as attachments