What do you think of this?????????

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I think whoever created that video is actually trying to send a message out about leaving pit bulls the way they are. Did you notice at the end when it says "Dear Santa, all I want for Christmas is a PIT BULL" then there are pictures of actual pitties, not the big headed ones they showed earlier? Then it says, Pit Bulls are a working breed, lets keep it that way. I dont know, just seems like whoever made the video wasn't introducing a *new* breed of dog, but rather showing the world what people have done to this amazing breed.

Call me crazy, when I see that video and read all of the messages, it just seems that way.

[.sarah]

I think whoever created that video is actually trying to send a message out about leaving pit bulls the way they are. Did you notice at the end when it says "Dear Santa, all I want for Christmas is a PIT BULL" then there are pictures of actual pitties, not the big headed ones they showed earlier? Then it says, Pit Bulls are a working breed, lets keep it that way. I dont know, just seems like whoever made the video wasn't introducing a *new* breed of dog, but rather showing the world what people have done to this amazing breed.

Call me crazy, when I see that video and read all of the messages, it just seems that way.

That's the way I saw it too.

[buttercup132]

i think the same as the above post

[SemaviLady]

I think whoever created that video is actually trying to send a message out about leaving pit bulls the way they are. Did you notice at the end when it says "Dear Santa, all I want for Christmas is a PIT BULL" ...

I agree with this impression of the movie. I am deaf, so I don't know what sort of sound went along with the movie -- but there was enough text there that seemed to imply that the first dogs pictured were exaggerations of the ideal bull breed.

I have been reading about more people crossing the "English" bulldog (the brachycephalic, achondroplastic and frequently dysplastic one...) to breeds that are somewhat more 'natural' in order to return the breed to some less exaggerated breed type -- sadly, this vigilante approach is confused, and this isn't going to work with the registered dog crowd. First the purebred crowd has to define that there is a problem and then resolve a way to fix it. It may mean destruction of the bulldog fancy since change is very difficult to accept.

I think that well bred pitties are awesome dogs. The old type were like small terrier greyhoundish dogs. Agility, gameness and good temperament was everything then. But without getting into new age people attracted to pit types for the wrong reasons, there are very nice people in ALL breeds who do seem to be attracted to exaggeration in conformation styles of dogs. Examples of skulls of three common breeds that have changed in a few decades. The Saint, Bullterrier, and the Newf.

The old type dogs of years ago are considered very poor in type now.

As people move away from the need to use working breeds, they tend to glorify in the exaggerations and refine the standards. This tends to narrow diversity in the gene pool and do other things that begin conflicts in dog 'politics' and ethics. Also, certain traits have been found to be associated with the genetics of other parts of the dog, which means unexpected health problems unrelated to the exaggerated feature can occur simply because of the regulatory effect of different (seemingly unrelated) genes.

In my own breed, in Turkey, there have been emerging conflicts between the old time shepherds who used the landrace working dogs with sheep and the new generations that have begun to embrace and change the dogs for completely "new age" reasons. Vague histories/mythology are intermixed to help glorify subtypes and various strains. It's social engineering to some degree. But I hope that the dogs don't end up paying the price.

I hope that in the long run, the working ability, breed character and soundness (all these are elements of breed type) of these dogs will be maintained. News and information about the dog genome will be so valuable in more ways than we can imagine now.

[Bigyummydog]

They also said, "They will all be pit bulls eventually."

[Bigyummydog]

The really cute song said, "all I want is a hippo."
Do you really want one of these hippos? That's
fine, if you are willing to have one of these. It's
just that too many people have "designed" this
particular dog. I'm sure the dogs are "just dogs."
MAXIMUS is just a dog. But why "make" them, just
to serve a person? Why not just have a "DOG?"
Saving one would be anyone's best bet.

"Hippo dog"..........I'm still not over it.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

They also said, "They will all be pit bulls eventually."

The quote was made by Howard Heinzl (now deceased) one of the most famous APBT breeders EVER. It actually says "When I start breeding for color I'll sure call them Staffordshires that's all they will be in a couple generations". I went on to read that Heinzl bred his dogs only for fighting purposes. How does this make him one of the best APBT breeders ever?

Howard Heinzl Story

Now I see, when it says "The APBT is a working breed" They are actually meaning a "fighting" breed. When it says "Lets keep it that way", they are saying that APBT should be bred only to fight. Stupid me for not realizing it, but I never would have if I didn't Google Howard Heinzl...

*EDIT* In the link I posted, Heinzl wrote about his fighting APBT's. Just thought I would let you all know before you clicked on it.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Here is the breeders website that made the video...

Mugglestons Pit Bull Farm

All the dogs on the video have pictures on this website.

[SemaviLady]

Now I see, when it says "The APBT is a working breed" They are actually meaning a "fighting" breed. When it says "Lets keep it that way", they are saying that APBT should be bred only to fight.

There is another dimension to consider. Old time dogmen generally had some pretty strict rules about the games. The rules including washing the dogs and getting them out of the ring if the dog appeared to back down.
It's better to get the info from the rpd.info FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/breeds/apbt/part3/

Nowadays, most people that do fight their dogs do not have a clue. They do not have the same level of honor or respect for the dogs as did above dogmen. I don't condone fighting of dogs whatsoever so I'm not saying the old style is more acceptable, but these fights were *different*. And when the old dogmen are quoted, this history and honor needs to be put into context.

Many youngsters who think they know about dog fighting actually haven't any clue about the culture that was behind the heritage of these game dogs. With so many ignorant people just making up their own rules, the one that is going to pay is ultimately going to be the dogs... all breeds...

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Regardless of what dog fighting *should be*, or how *it used to be* I will always stand against it. Howard Heinzl seemed like a very devoted, loving owner, but that doesn't change the fact that his dogs were born to fight and die. And if you're implying that I don't understand dog fighting, your wrong. I know what it used to be and what is is now. I wish nobody ever came up with the idea to fight dogs, maybe we wouldn't have BSL. Alot of BSL has to do with the background of such breeds.

Crossing all those breeds, then inbreeding, to become *master breeders* like Heinzl is ruining a wonderful breed of dog. Heinzl is a hero to many people that are breeding 120 pound pitties with huge heads. They want to follow in his footsteps, and unfortunately, they are going to extremes. Like old time dogmen who didn't care how the dogs looked, people these days do - and they will do anything to create the *best* looking dogs. All the while not knowing how harmful inbreeding is.

[cali]

I to am against dog fighting but that does NOT make the video or the quote wrong. the video is illistrated to make a point, so what if it comes from a fighting perspective, the video is right, and could very easily be about ANY breed, its simpley a point that working BC people and working terrier people have been making for years, show people deny it, and the video proves the show people wrong, I auplaud it and I LOVE the video and agree wholeheartidly with every word on that video.

[SemaviLady]

Regardless of what dog fighting *should be*, or how *it used to be* I will always stand against it.

No problem. We're on the same page.

When one writes about some of the old time dogmen, this doesn't necessarily mean that you or I completely embrace their ideals, nor necessarily did I mean to imply it of you. Nor do I mean to imply, those were the "good old days". In delicate topics like this, sometimes it is difficult to write with clarity.

I thought you brought up great discussion points including the potential issue of intentionally breeding for exaggeration. Definitely a sore point in my book since it potentially creates an increasingly unnatural dog and can lead to unexpected problems. This selection for exaggeration in breeding is an element that faces most every breed to some extent due to the unbalanced nature of the show ring in selection of breeding stock.

I have found that many people are not aware of how exaggerated that even common breeds have become, which is why I keep a copy of that photo of the skulls. Note how similar the skulls in the top of the selection, and how distinct they become as time goes by.

Great topic with strong relevance to other breeds.

[buttercup132]

its not about fighting at the end of the site for the breeder who made the video it says punish the deed not the breed that shows me right there hes not in it for fighting.....

[Bigyummydog]

Thanks everyone. I didn't think it was about fighting. But I may have
misunderstood it's meaning. I thought it was someone being proud of
making a new "something" and wanting to make it a pit bull....or something.
I'll look at it again. I've tried not to watch it again after the first four or
five times.