Originally posted by bckrazy

I agree with you about breed clubs setting a more vague standard! I think show people tend to obsess over every word in the standard (because they want to win), and therefor exaggerate that as much as possible... the GSD standard calls for a sloped topeline (aka bananaback) and bent hocks ~ so they breed in the most sloped topelines and the most bent hocks possible! ack. the whole thing is crazy. Like I said before, its like selecting a doctor based on how many beauty pageants he's won... you really cant tell IF a dog will work based on how he looks. I think I'm way more annoyed by ACK in general, because Border Collies are bred for working with very, very little attention to looks. Which is why every working BC you see looks unique, two rarely look the same!

^.^ what you said about plenty of show people working their dogs ~ I frickin hope so!!! If they put that much money and energy into showing their dogs to prove their breedability just based on appearance, they'd better prove them in the sport they're bred for.
The two ideas contradict again. In working breeds, work ethics is focused on while aesthetics is ignored. In conformation aesthetics and build is focused on while work ethic is much less important. Therefore, you've got greyt working dogs, but, like you said, they don't look the same. In conformation, that's the opposite of what they strive for. Much of conformation is based on tradition and consistency. I don't feel as strongly as working people feel about this whole thing, but when the situation has gone so far that one group wants the other to cease to exist, imo, it's time for intervention.

And you're right. I'd hope that people only use conformation as one step on the breeding ladder, too, because *that's* the way it is supposed to be. Success in the show ring doesn't immediately prove a dog. Among the obvious, he should pass extensive health tests with flying colors and show appropriate work ethic and have an excellent temperament. Of course, there are some fame-driven exhibitors who dream of the BIS trophy and none other (one prominent kennel in the Sonoma area has produced hundreds of champions, but their dogs have horrible temperaments. In fact, one of their dogs made it to a group placement at Westminster, but they are shunned by many reputable breeders who realize the "standards" they live up to. Although they've had success in the show ring, I would not consider the bulk of their dogs breed-able nor would I deem them reputable). I admit it is them who should be blamed and not the sport as a whole.
At any rate, the two sides have such different views. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree since that's all they've (both sides) been able to accomplish nowadays