Terri Schiavo - so sad :(

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am conflicted about the death penalty. My concern is not whether it is an appropriate punishment or not. My concern is the adequacy of the judical system and its ability to determine guilt. Too many times someone has been on death row and then exonerated when the real killer is found. And usually they are poor and minority.

If it is barbaric to remove her feeding tube....what is it to convict an innocent person....let them sit for years in prison...and then execute them???? Is it okay because they are poor, have committed other crimes, are mentally retarded, had a bad lawyer?

How many times is too many?

I agree with what Dershowitz said. But I also cannot understand how one can say they are pro-life and be pro-death penalty. The system just isn't good enough to ensure that an innocent person won't be put to death for a crime they didn't commit.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Originally posted by RICHARD


Now, as pet people on this site what do we do when we find our pets suffering or living a life that has no quality to it????

Well, we don't starve them to death!

Another thing makes me think. Her parents have to under go 3 security checks before they can get in to see Terri. (all ordered by Terri's husband)

I have no problem with THAT but why must they be strip searched?

Not to keep them from killing Terri. They know THAT won't happen. The only reason I can see is to keep them from giving her water / food and HELPING her.

I'm afraid it is too late for Terri now. It's like I said earlier, if she must die, couldn't they at least be merciful about it?

People can't even agree about when life starts, how can they decide when it should end?

[Luvin Labs]

How do we know they are NOT being merciful? We dunno if they are giving her drugs or not to end her life peacefully.

chelsea

As for the government getting involved, it sickens me for several reasons. First and fore most if they really believed what they claimed about erring with the side of life then why didn't they get involved in the case in Texas??
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory...olitan/3084934

they actually DID get involved, they made a bill to pull the plug! You see bush flip flops just as much as the next politician.

Lemme find more information on that... I DO remember that El Presidente signed some bill in TX in 1999 that allows hospitals to pull the plug.

brb on that

[Pam]

Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Well, we don't starve them to death!

People can't even agree about when life starts, how can they decide when it should end?

MOFF you have that right.

We were all discussing this at work today and one of my co-workers had an interesting thought. She said how in the world are both sides ever going to come together at one funeral? She made the comment that if it was her daughter lying there she could not be in the same church as the "husband." Possibly two funerals she thought. I hadn't allowed myself to go that far in my thinking but I guess I had better start doing so.

[Pam]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
I am conflicted about the death penalty. My concern is not whether it is an appropriate punishment or not. My concern is the adequacy of the judical system and its ability to determine guilt. Too many times someone has been on death row and then exonerated when the real killer is found. And usually they are poor and minority.

Sara I am conflicted as well. Recently there was a man on extreme make-overs who had been rotting in prison for years (maybe decades - I can't even remember) all because of a teeth imprint on the body which an "expert" testified was made from his teeth. Through DNA now he has been proven innocent and released. Amazingly he exhibits little bitterness.

As we become more and more sophisticated in the ways we handle forensic evidence hopefully these things will be happening less and less. Of course it is too late for some. My hubby is very strongly against capital punishment. I think it very much has its place in circumstances like the slime that killed little Jessica Lunsford. He has confessed. Let's save the state some money and the lawyers their trouble. My heart aches for those who may have been wrongly executed but I don't think we can throw out the whole concept. Let's throw out the lenient judges. Jessica's killer had 24 arrests. He should have been locked up and the key thrown away. Now there's a start. Sorry, I am getting off topic.

[Cataholic]

A little off the topic but:

Originally posted by Samantha Puppy
T.....and two illegitimate children.

WOW. I find that statment a little hard to read past. The children are not illegitmate. To put that label on them is a bit circa 1940s..IMO. While you might not agree with the acts of the parents, the children are nothing less than legitimate.

[catland]

From what I can tell, Mrs. Schiavo "died" 15 years ago. Her mind is gone. The question that no one can answer is, "what about her soul"? Did it die with the lack of oxygen, or is it still trapped inside of her, waiting to be freed?


From the political view - aren't the people who are interfering with the husband's wishes the same ones who were all "one man - one woman" sanctitiy of marriage supporters six months ago?

Finally, if it was me in that state - I would be happy that my husband found someone else to share his life with since I could no longer be with him.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Luvin Labs
How do we know they are NOT being merciful? We dunno if they are giving her drugs or not to end her life peacefully.

chelsea


they actually DID get involved, they made a bill to pull the plug! You see bush flip flops just as much as the next politician.

Lemme find more information on that... I DO remember that El Presidente signed some bill in TX in 1999 that allows hospitals to pull the plug.

brb on that

Luvin Labs,

Do you mean the legislation mentioned in this article ?



" For your information, while he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed the Advanced Directives Act in 1999, which gives hospitals the right to remove life support in cases where there is no possibility of revival, when the family cannot pay, no matter what the family's wishes are in the matter. In Texas, you can only live in a persistent vegetative state if you are accepted in one of the few institutions that provide such care or if your family is both willing and able to take care of you. And if Bush is so concerned about the right to life, why didn't he give death-row inmate Carla Faye Tucker more than 10 minutes consideration and some cheap mockery? "

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud

and if Bush is so concerned about the right to life, why didn't he give death-row inmate Carla Faye Tucker more than 10 minutes consideration and some cheap mockery? "

He was drunk???

Originally posted by Logan
Richard, I rarely disagree with you, but I do this time.......I only refer to my earlier post regarding ering on the side of life, since there are so many questions. The whole thing makes me sad, and yes, I feel it is murder.........

I understand, I have mixed emotions about this...
Part of me says that she should live, but starving her to death is criminal, the other part of me says that she deserves a fate far better than this.


Let me explain!

Back in Year One I used to be a file clerk.

I saw many cases where the volumes of patient charts (who were in our extended care facilities) grew to ENORMOUS proportions..

Take 350 sheets of paper, multiply that by 20 volumes and you get the picture.

In some of those volumes there were photos of bed sores (decubitis ulcers) where you could see the heel bone showing out the back of the poor patients foot from being on their backs for so long, also buttocks elbows and shoulders were open, raw holes in that person's body.

That really sucks because the image haunts you for years....I hadn't thought of them for that long....I'll have to pass on the meat section of the market for a while.....I know that sounds gross, but is something that you can never forget.

Factor in all the infections, germs and God knows what else is lurking in that room that may kill this woman before the courts, lawyers and our government get a grip on what THEY are going to do.

Even a well meaning visitor can touch or breathe something into the air that COULD make this whole case moot.

Plus there is the fact that if may be too late to try and rehabilitate
her. Years of her not using her limbs have made physical therapy
a tough job.

12 years is a long time to spend, trapped inside your body and mind. There is no way to tell if she hasn't had some sort of catastrophic breakdown!!

The one thing we will never know is what her feelings are-

Sometimes the sounds of a tempest in the teapot drown out the voices of the people stuck in the storm.



It's not easy.

[moosmom]

The U.S. Supreme Court has just denied Terri's parents request to re-insert the feeding tube.

I guess that's the end of THAT.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news.../24scotus.html


Maybe her parents can have her life "stopped" without her having to starve to death.....

[Logan]

Such a sad, sad day. Of course, all of them have been in recent weeks.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Cataholic
WOW. I find that statment a little hard to read past. The children are not illegitmate. To put that label on them is a bit circa 1940s..IMO. While you might not agree with the acts of the parents, the children are nothing less than legitimate.

I didn't come up with the term. And just for the record, I have no problem with his children. If anything, I feel sorry for them. Their daddy is a POS who is STILL MARRIED to a woman who is not their mommy. So much for the whole "for better, for worse, in sickness and in health" deal he made, huh?

[Luvin Labs]

Originally posted by lizbud
Luvin Labs,

Do you mean the legislation mentioned in this article ?



" For your information, while he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush signed the Advanced Directives Act in 1999, which gives hospitals the right to remove life support in cases where there is no possibility of revival, when the family cannot pay, no matter what the family's wishes are in the matter. In Texas, you can only live in a persistent vegetative state if you are accepted in one of the few institutions that provide such care or if your family is both willing and able to take care of you. And if Bush is so concerned about the right to life, why didn't he give death-row inmate Carla Faye Tucker more than 10 minutes consideration and some cheap mockery? "

OOh yeah, that's it! Thanks

Finally, hopefully, sadly, this case will come to a close. It doesn't matter right now that he's "an pos", he's staying with her to fulfill her wishes of not wanting to 'live' like this (that's why he didn't divorce her!) and FINALLY her wishes can be filled out. Not like it hasn't been tried for the last seven years or so... with courts siding with her time and time again...

I feel sad for her parents since they are holding on and not being able to let go, I do NOT want to go through with seeing any children I might have die before I do, but I'd fulfill his/her wishes (hopefully).

[sirrahbed]

I hope some of you have found time to get your Living Wills - the news reported that this case has caused an increase in folks asking about them.

One thing that I keep hearing is "starve her to death" and "murdering her" - neither of with are fair.

I suppose you could say that anyone who dies goes through a period of failing to eat ("starving to death??") as it is a natural step at the end. Folks stop eating whether consciously or unconsciously and the body does begin to shut down, a dying person does develop the sunken face, grimace etc. I have directly experienced death both as an RN and with my mother.

I heard a statement by the Hospice folks who said that going without food or water in the end is NOT painful at all. Anyone who is allowed to die in a Hospice is cared for to prevent any uneccessary suffering and the death is as peaceful as the family will allow.

As for Terri - I wish they would have a spokesperson give the true report on her condition. They would likely report the following: say her lips are not parched because staff will keep them lubricated. Her mouth is often swapped with a moist and soothing swab. She is not in pain either because she is not able to feel pain or that she is medicated.

I have heard conflicting reports about whether Terri feels pain. If there is any chance that she does, she will be given enough morphine to control it.

I have had to switch from network to network to get as many facts as I can. It is a sad situation and hard to sort out the truth with all the allegations being thrown around.

But, the biggest and grossest statement is that she is being starved to death - because this same decision is being made every minute of every day by family caring for loved ones. It doesn't change much if that loved one is hooked to a ventilator because the same logic could be used and this person would then be "asphixiated or suffocated to death". Nothing about death is easy and euphemisms abound -as do these hurtful phrases that will likely haunt the decisions of anyone with a dying relative or friend.

Also - in the Living Will - at least here in Ohio, it clearly lists the withholding of food and water as a life saving measure, along with respirators (vents).

Within the past three years, my husband and I each had to travel across the country to be with a dying parent. in My husband did it twice - for each parent. In each case, there was no Living Will, although I did know the wishes of my mother. We had to initiate a DNR order (do not resuscitate) Both my husband and I had to be the one to make a decision to let the parent die naturally and each sat alone at their bedsides. I was alone with my mother when she took her last breath. Thank God that none of the family resisted us - they simply were not emotionally ready to decide *anything*. They were very much like Terri's family, unable to let go and running purely on emotion.

So, did we allow our parents to starve to death, asfixiate, suffocate, etc? That IS essentially what happens. In order to die, a person HAS to cease beathing, eating, etc.

There is NO WAY anyone will know the truth of what Terri wanted. What I feel sure about is that she would NOT want her picture broadcast on all the television networks for the world to see. This woman has been used as a pawn in a game of anger, politics, blame, family disaggreement and even religion.

I don't like what I hear about the husband either. But those facts are not proven or disproven. I wonder if he will now have a slander suit due to all that has been said about him in this "eleventh hour". But, what I hear is all pretty creepy. Still, the name calling surrounding Terri and all of the division has been beyond hateful. It has made people take sides.
Why did he not divorce her? Perhaps he was committed to seeing her wishes honored??
On the other hand, if there was so much "evidence" that he was a wife abuser, hated her and wanted her dead - why did the family not fight like this to gain custody of her?

I suppose the only good to come from this mess is the increase in Living Wills.



edited later for spelling