First off, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but is merely insight and my opinion on why these types of threads can tend to get emotional and out of hand.

The emotions involved in this kind of discussion are sparked, in my opinion, by simple words such as "cruel" or "uneducated." I think people would feel less defensive if the wording was different, such as "I don't like them personally." or "I think there are better training methods." But the moment words like cruel or uneducated come into it, it takes it to a new emotional level. I can tell you it is a VERY distressing feeling when you feel like someone is saying or implying that you are cruel to your beloved furkids. I would be very hesitant to use the word "cruel" unless someone is deliberately being neglectful or hurtful to their dog. As far as education, it all depends on where one gains their education. I have read and looked at many books and a great many of them differ in their training methods by a lot.

Many people have very different ideas on what cruelty is. I was accused of being cruel to my collies once while I was out hiking, because Cody was wearing a doggie backpack and the person felt that was cruel to make him wear it. This was despite his tail wagging and him happily trotting along wearing his pack. What I'm saying though is that I believe all of us here feel passionate about our dogs and love them beyond words, and that is why when we see the words cruel in reference to something we do or have done, it is very hurtful and distressing. I am sure some of you recall another thread where someone believed that crating dogs was cruel.

As far as this collar, I do not use it as a training tool, but have used it a few times for specific situations when walking Tommy in areas of traffic and startling noises. I will explain briefly my reasoning. Tommy has timidity issues and sometimes tries to bolt when something frightens him. He is a large dog, stronger than me, and for a couple YEARS I used a gentle leader when walking him to make sure he couldn't bolt and tear his leash out of my hands and barrel into oncoming traffic. For almost two years, his tail was between his legs, and he was miserable on every walk that involved this head collar. I tried everything to get him accustomed to it so he wouldn't be miserable, but he just was, he hated that thing on his face. With some misgivings, I picked up a prong collar one day and tried it. First walk, his tail was up, wagging, and he was happy for most of the walk. One thing startled him and he jumped and pulled, but let up when it got uncomfortable. He was actually more confident and less jumpy without halter collar.

I haven't used it in months now, he's getting better and better all the time. I am working with him diligently, using only positive methods in training. I do not really see it as a training tool, but neither do I see the halti as a training tool. They are insurance, I suppose Band-aid is a good word for it but sometimes you need a band-aid in certain situations.

Do I believe they have the potential to be used cruelly? Yes. I also do not believe they should EVER be put on a young puppy, and never before a dog is properly leash trained. Those are my beliefs.

Just please, when disagreeing with a training method, try to be careful in your wording, disagree and say the methods you prefer, but try to avoid words like "cruel," otherwise the person is immediatley put on the defensive, and may possibly close their minds to your advice at that point. Of course if you saw someone actually hurting their dog and abusing deliberately, that would be different, but I truly do not believe that of anyone here.