In case anyone was wondering, I'm still here, just quietly watching all of the drama. I think there is a lot of good information in the first half or so of this thread and it would be a shame to delete it, perhaps I can get Karen to lock it instead? There have been many people who really opened up on this thread, some feelings were hurt, and yes many barbs were thrown on this thread as well as by PM. It is sad that threads which bring together people of different backgrounds and opinions often digress into arguing*sigh* but I suppose that's just how it is and always will be. Whatever you believe in, cling to that and be strong. No one should be able to change your opinion but yourself