The only time i have ever seen a canine force another canine over was actually just a few months ago when we took Koli for her first socialization session. She went to attack (using the term loosely) the other dog for a second time and was being quite a pain. He pinned her in less than a second. (It looked more like a Karate move than an alpha roll, but it served its purpose.) He was quite dignified. They had a whole conversation in about three seconds (eyes/body language) and when she agreed she was done nipping him he let her up.
Other than that yeah... either a dog submisses on it's own rolling over or it doesn't. They have other ways of establishing dominance.
Originally Posted by
Giselle
BC_Mom, I agree. That's why I informed my trainer, and I told her that I'd prefer it if he didn't do these things in public. I can't control what he does at home, but hopefully we can enlighten him in class =/
Well, here's my take on alpha rolls. The thing is that I was always taught that the alpha rolls performed by wolves are not forceful in any way. I was taught that the dominant dog will place its arm over the subordinate and the lesser dog will willingly roll over to reveal its stomach. I see this with puppies a lot so it made sense. In fact, I was really curious and I decided to try it with Ivy 
. I got down on all fours and placed one arm over her back. She immediately flopped down belly up. Pretty amazing! My opinion is that alpha rolls have been disturbingly misused (no thanks to Cesar, either), and they've been morphed into some type of macho control mechanism. I can understand pinning a dog down to stop a fight because I am sometimes driven to that point, too. It's a gut reaction and, when mace is not on hand, it's sometimes the only option available to immediately stop a fight. However, to use it regularly as a training method is against my ethics.
ETA: However, I don't consider pinning a dog down to stop a fight as an alpha roll. I simply see it as a way of getting the dogs apart and away from each other if they're not wearing collars and/or it's unsafe to reach for the head area.
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