I know you were asking Ketreva, but this brings back memories when my Hannah was younger as this is just the way she was. I honestly don't know exactly how we worked it out, it just took time and lots of perseverence. The thing is we did work it out. Just had some thoughts as I read your post. You say you take her to a specific spot to go potty. This is a good strategy, but my theory is if one thing is not working, try something else. How about letting her pick *going* whereever she pleases? Also Scout has decided that going out is simply for playing ball, maybe you should not play ball every time you go out, just at her specific play times. She starts jumping up asking to play, you say, "No, you go potty". With Hannah, if she goes during the time we are out for play time and then does some serious running and jumping for the Kong, I always tell her to "Go potty" again before we go in, and 9 times out of 10, she will. Running and playing makes her need to go again, even though she may have gone 20 minutes before. As to how long you and she should stay out there waiting for her to go, that is a question I asked myself many a night in the wind and the wet and the cold. If I knew she should have to go, I usually stuck it out as long as it took. I would just keep walking her back and forth, telling her to go potty. I think keeping moving is preferable to standing in one spot. This helps on two counts. One is she may find a spot where she decides this the one she wants to go at (some dogs can be very picky about that) and the other is moving in and of itself is going to facilitate the need to go.