America the Beautiful? (Controversial!)

[RICHARD]

At least we have an enviromental agency in place.

Look at the gold mines in the Africa where arsenic is still being used to sluice off the material to gather the stuff.

Look at how many acres of rain forest that disappear each day because other South Am countries are too poor to stop it.

Look at the sanitation issues in India. They aren't kidding when they stand at the edge of the Ganges and say, "Holy Sh-t, that water is bad."

Yes, We americans are concerned about our enviromental issues.

And MORE concerned about everyone else mucking up the planet.


Since you have managed to hold on to my "small insignificant country" quote, why not add "really small" to the quote just to change things up a bit.


Is Bush bashing a real sport???

I guess it could be......You can tell from that 'football' you guys play over there......you can't use your hands and riot when your team loses.

THAT'S SPORTING!

That article makes it sound that Bush is polluting the US, all by himself.........If that is the case he really is a bad guy, no??

And I am really surprised at a Brit taking such shots across our bow like that........I always thought our countries were friends..

But then again I should be bitter about Washington D.C. being torched by you guys in 1814.

It's all part of war.....and we got over it.

Your 'distant' views of our prez and EPA are kinda skewed. We do have what's called and Enviromental Impact Report that is taken when we build ANYTHING out here.

We have had plants and animals stop huge construction projects until we can figure out how to keep them safe a flourishing. We have National Parks and protected areas that cannot be developed, In California, we pay the highest prices for gas because of the Cal Air Resouces Board.

It sounds kinda funny because the "brown stickleback groundhog"
stops a road project....

But you have to do a little more research to find out these things.

While we do have a problem with pollution in our country, It's our problem, no one elses.

So when you can give us a hand, come on down, we'd appreciate
it......talking about it doesn't do us any good, it's just more hot air into the atmosphere.

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by RICHARD
While we do have a problem with pollution in our country, It's our problem, no one elses.

Richard, I am shocked at that statement!! Do you really think our pollution isn't anyone else's problem? The air pollution from all Ahnold's H2s just hangs above Sacramento and doesn't go anywhere else? The mercury-filled waters of the Mississippi River flow out of the Mississippi and....right back into the Mississippi??? Toxic fumes from our factories don't get blown over the Canada and the North Pole as the Earth orbits the Sun? Other countries are concerned about our pollution because they have to deal with it too. We have to deal with their pollution too, but the US produces roughly 25% of the Earth's pollution. The US is the largest single emitter of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels, yet only has 5% of the Earth's population. So to say that our pollution is only "our problem" is ludicrous.

If you mean that it's just our problem to deal with, then you agree with Bush on his decision to pull out of the Kyoto Protocol two months after entering office? Yes, as you stated, we do have protected area like National Parks and Forests...but George Bush wants to log them (like the Daniel Boone National Forest here in KY) or drill for oil in them (Alaska) or put roads in them (Yosemite). Why would he want to do something like that? HRMMMMMMMMMM let's think, could it be because of Mark Rey, the former timber industry lobbyist and Bush made his Agriculture Undersecretary, the post charged with overseeing the U.S. Forest Service??? I could go on...

A road not being built because of an endangered species isn't what we're talking about here. We're talking about things on a much much larger scale. Things that will effect the survival of this planet.

I am really disspointed in your opinion on this one.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/us.html
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock
http://www.xist.org/global/pop_data2.php
http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/mt_archives/000178.php
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...7_woods16.html
http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/rey.html

[Soledad]

Pollution is NOT one country's issue, it's EVERYONE'S issue in the world. There is no possible way to refute that. It's call the food chain, people.

Also, are we supposed to be proud of the fact that the world's richest country and only super power can at least say it has an EPA? How is that for lowering the bar? Comparing our environmental systems to Africa and India? Jeez, how sad...I guess America must only be compared to the lowest common denominator. That's patriotism for you!

[Edwina's Secretary]

And of course....meddling in the affairs of another nation is something the U.S. nor any of its citizens would THINK of doing...nor offering opinions on the actions of other nations....nor the leaders of those nations...

[heinz57_79]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
And of course....meddling in the affairs of another nation is something the U.S. nor any of its citizens would THINK of doing...nor offering opinions on the actions of other nations....nor the leaders of those nations...

Brilliant! My thoughts exactly!!!

[Soledad]

Why are you so afraid to back up your beliefs? You seem scared to death to actually follow through on your convictions. Why don't you research the web and find something you think Bush has done re: environment that can really teach people? Why just lash out and assume that criticism=hatred?

I guess it takes time, effort, and brain power for that. And I'm sure you have the last one....

[leslie]

Deb- I don't think anyone is talking hatred here- just about the bills that stopped pollution etc and he signed to be ineffective (to put in a nutshell). It's just a matter of facts. not who lives where, who's family fought what war, you know. just particular environmental bills that he undid. All by himself, yes. With the blessing of big oil execs who had stopped nbc from running the news that global warming was causing these multiple bad weathers across the globe. Because it will hurt the oil industry. And television execs can't afford to loose the backing of their money. It's really very simple and like soledad says, just read the facts. It's very black and white and nothing that the White House is denying! There is no denial here, they have justified every move for undoing all the environmental acts. Also see in Dog house the reasoning for animal bills being changed. and the harm it has caused. Not to say anyone hates anyone! just dealing with reality! Our voters need to be aware, do you not agree my friend?

[leslie]

also- I don't see anywhere in the story where it implies that America or Bush are alone responsible for world pollution. If you and Richard read that, please quote and let rest of us know- to me, it is specific to particulars... right or wrong? I don't see anything arguable in the article. it is all facts. Can be verified easily and Bush doesn't deny them. He can't.

[RICHARD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lizzielou742
[B]

I am really disspointed in your opinion on this one.

[B]

Shoot,

you mean I dont think like the borg?

Actually,

I am more paranoid than most, I just don't show it.....

It's not becoming and it makes me look real stupid farther down the road-skip over my posts and i'll once again shine in your eyes....


Since I stuck this knife in my forehead I have had trouble thinking.

Excuse me, I am going to do some self loathing.

[lizzielou742]

eh? what is 'the borg?' duh

I guess I should clarify - what I am really dissapointed in is the comment - "While we do have a problem with pollution in our country, It's our problem, no one elses" because it's a baseless argument...& it appears to show a lack of awareness of the rest of the world on your part.

You still shine in my eyes Richard Come on now, pull the knife out.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
& it appears to show a lack of awareness of the rest of the world on your part.

Look at the gold mines in the Africa where arsenic is still being used to sluice off the material to gather the stuff.

Look at how many acres of rain forest that disappear each day because other South Am countries are too poor to
stop it.

Look at the sanitation issues in India. They aren't kidding when they stand at the edge of the Ganges and say,
"Holy Sh-t, that water is bad."

You are right, I don't know anything about the rest of the world

[lizzielou742]

I said "it appears to" which is why it didn't make sense with the rest of your agument, because you did mention those things about African mining, etc.

It's all good. All the problems in the world just boil down to money, you know? And about who/how/where people want to spend it. Now, if only I could figure out a way to change that....

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
I said "it appears to" which is why it didn't make sense with the rest of your agument, because you did mention those things about African mining, etc.

I just wanted to bring up a this point.

People outside our borders are always Bush/America bashing on the points that affect the citizens here in the states.

While our EPA/enviromental policies AREN'T the best on the planet, there are countries out there that really don't care about their citizens, enivroment or animals within their borders.

We aren't perfect, but WHAT laws we have here in the US are a smidge better than the rest of the world.

I usually don't have a point to make or a side to choose. I just like to shake the tree.

[jonza]

Well Richard, it seems we just can't agree on much can we. The interesting thing is, that in all your posts, I have not yet found out what you really stand for. Do you think the environment should be protected? Do you think that Bush should get a second term of office? Do you think it's OK that the huge Corporations are taking over so much of our lives? Are you prepared to state your beliefs? If you're going to shout and threaten, you should at least have something relevant to say or some sort of concrete argument. What are you REALLY against? (apart from upstart foreigners daring to criticize your president). If you think that I'm just picking on America, then you haven't understood what I'm talking about. I would just like to make people more aware of what is really happening in the "developed" world (not just America), think long and hard about it, and check the facts. And think about the world that we will leave to future generations.

"At least we have an enviromental agency in place".
If you read my post, you will see that monthly violation notices are down 58%, that the EPA announced a plan to allow sewage treatment plants to release biologically untreated waste into rivers, and the Bush administration has sought to remove protection from 20m acres of wetlands and allow mountaintop mining companies to dump their waste directly into waterways. Do you think this is all just lies? Perhaps YOU have to do a little more research to find out these things.

"Look at how many acres of rain forest that disappear each day because other South Am countries are too poor to stop it".
Come on! You must be joking again. Who's most interested in destroying all our forests? I'll tell you - The Bush administration and his friends in the timber industry.
Could it be that American Corporations have something to do with the plight of the South Americans?

"Yes, We americans are concerned about our enviromental issues. And MORE concerned about everyone else mucking up the planet.
I think you should clean up in your own back garden before you start accusing others of "mucking up the planet".

"Since you have managed to hold on to my "small insignificant country" quote, why not add "really small" to the quote just to change things up a bit".
Sorry to disappoint you Richard, it's not your quote, it was jackiesdaisy1935. Perhaps you would have liked to have said it, it has a nice contemptuous ring to it, doesn't it!

"And I am really surprised at a Brit taking such shots across our bow like that........I always thought our countries were friends".
Well maybe the Prime Minister is, but it appears that a majority of the British don't like your ADMINISTRATION. That's not the same as not liking America or Americans.
Could it have anything to do with the way the Bush Administration is running things?

"We have National Parks and protected areas that cannot be developed, In California, we pay the highest prices for gas because of the Cal Air Resouces Board".
Cannot be developed YET. See how long they last under a Bush administration. And Americans must surely have some of the cheapest gasoline in the world. Don't come to Europe and buy a gallon of gas, you couldn't afford it!

"While we do have a problem with pollution in our country, It's our problem, no one elses".
I think that others have answered that much better than I could.

"So when you can give us a hand, come on down, we'd appreciate it ...... talking about it doesn't do us any good, it's just more hot air into the atmosphere".

(sigh) … so NOT talking about it will help more, perhaps the problems will just go away? I've been around too long to believe that.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by jonza
Well Richard, it seems we just can't agree on much can we.

Well Jonza, why would I want to agree with you?

I was just defending the colonies.

The motherland and all that stuff.

I really hope that Bush does win another 4 years. I bothers me to think that the Bush Bashers won't have anything to do with their time and thoughts. I'd hate to think what would happen when they start to contemplate their own little space on the planet.


I have always admired the Brits and their 'stiff upper lip' approach to life........The Brits that I have had the privilege to meet were kind, soft spoken and well mannered-even when they had an ax to grind....

I haven't had the opportunity to meet you.....make an apppointment...

And about my back garden......
Why is it so important to YOU that my back garden stay clean??
I thought it was a typical 'US citizen' thing to stick our noses where they don't belong!

It cracks me up to see you waste your time rebutting my comments......they have no basis, no concrete facts behind them and no facts to back them up......

So why bother?
Or does it make you feel good to beat up on a poor defenseless moron like me???

We pollute and so does the rest of the planet.

Now what?