who here is against breeders (all animals?)

[jenluckenbach]

When you think really hard about it, who is REALLY to blame? It is the people who BUY from puppy mills and back yard breeders! After all, you will never stop those people from trying to make the easy buck. But if we as a population stop supporting them knowing that they are WRONG we can in time put them out of business.

But why do we as a population go to these places to buy our pets? Because many (if not all) GOOD REPUTABLE breeders charge too much for many people to afford. So those people will get what they think they want from someone who will cater to their price range (PMs and BYBs).

So for me the bottom line is simple...........until the human race can stop thinking about
1) How to make more money (by breeding and selling cheap at the expence of the animals)
and
2) How to save some money (by buying cheap at all costs even from people you know should not be breeding)..........

I am against ALL breeding,

[ILoveReptiles]

110% AGAINST!

*snickering*

Seriously though, yes, I am against back-yard-breeders. I'd prefer to adopt/rescue a dog from a shelter...

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Snuggles - I don't hate breeders and I'm not really against them, but I think breeders should give back to the shelters. I also think Breeders should (not saying you don't) look around and notice how many animals ARE in shelters, or ARE in life or death situations. There just are not enough shelters! I think if they did, or even spent some time at shelters maybe they would relize how much the rabbit, dog, cats, rat, hamster etc. world NEED more shelters and less animals. (Again, not saying you don't!)

This is why I also do rescue work. I cannot tell you how many rats have been in and out of my home this past year, TONS!!! Heck, the last litter I bred was way back in December, December! I don't breed often, and when I do I have homes lined up for the pups before the pair is even put together, they are all adopted with papers and they are to be returned to me if they cannot keep the animal anymore. I have only had one rat returned to me and that was Ollie, who was to come back here anyway as he went to a daycare facility for the term. My last litter was from a doe that came to me pregnant. I have had NO litters myself this year, reason being is that there are a lots of rats in my area that need homes and I have been spending all my time finding my rescues homes. My motto is, if you don't rescue, don't breed!!! Rescuing aside, there is a very special need for responsible rat breeders, because if we do not better rats as a whole they are still going to have these problems for years to come, and still die horrible painful deaths.

We also do not have "breeds" of rats. We only have types, and you can get several types from a mating. I charge $25 dollars per baby I adopt, sometimes more. This helps keep them out of snakes bellies and out of greedy hands etc. My babies cannot be bred themselves without my written permission first. I think it is absolutely silly to tell everyone to go to the petshop to get a rat, or from a rescue. Rats are VERY different than cats and dogs. Shelter rats most of the time need LOTS of work, work that an inexperienced rat owner cannot do with the rat, and that will only make things worse and most of the time the animal goes back to the shelter and gets tossed around over and over. I only urge experience rat owners to adopt from a shelter, and if not go to a breeder. Yes, there are rats in shelters, but most of those rats came from petshop breeders or irresponsible breeders. I know where EVERY SINGLE ONE of my babies are to this day, and I make wonderful friendships with my adoptees. Not once has a rat of mine been in a shelter, and it will never happen because I care where my babies end up. We need to focus on the people who are supplying the petshops, breeding feeders, and selling babies for an easy buck. I am sick of hearing we don't need rat breeders, because if you truly knew rats, and their health issues you would understand that we DO need responsible breeders, so that the suffering of rats can end. Have you ever seen a rat die from Myco? I have and I cannot tell you how horrible it is to see them die that way. How about tumors? Pyometra? SDA, Sendai? the list goes on and on. These are HORRIBLE illnesses but they can all be eliminated through selective breeding of healthy stock, so that the first time rat owner doesn't have heartache, but happiness and doesn't have to watch their rat die of accute respiratory distress, but of old age, dying peacefully in their sleep on snuggled in their owners pocket.

Besides that, I also have a rescue and I rescue many different kinds of pets. I rarely breed but when I do it is nothing I take lightly. I get at least a hundred rats through my place each year. The list also includes, gerbils, hedgies, short tailed possums, hamsters and whatever else happens to waltz through my door. Ewok was a bottle baby I fed, a rescue. Most of my cats in the past were rescues, as were my dogs. Pooka came from the shelter, as did my corgi mix, as did Morgan. I LOVE shelter dogs!!! They are the best ever! I will continue to go to shelters too. I just took in a feral cat. She is still nervous and I am working on getting her to let me pet her, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. I love my rescues. I want a purebred Boston Terrier but I won't go to a breeder. I am waiting for one to land in a local shelter.

[KYS]

by jenluckenbach:When you think really hard about it, who is REALLY to blame? It is the people who BUY from puppy mills and back yard breeders! After all, you will never stop those people from trying to make the easy buck. But if we as a population stop supporting them knowing that they are WRONG we can in time put them out of business.>>>>>>>>

YEP! YEP! YEP! I agree totally.

jenluckenbach: But why do we as a population go to these places to buy our pets? Because many (if not all) GOOD REPUTABLE breeders charge too much for many people to afford. >>>>>>>>

In Calif. buying from a reputable breeder is actualy cheaper
than buying from a Pet Store who buys their dogs
from PM.

BYB are the cheapest $$$, and easier, but when you consider
the future vet bills you might end up with, the BYB might not be that cheaper in the long run.
(even thought their are no guarrentees that a pup from
a reputable breeder will be healthy but at least you know
they have done genetic health tests on their lines.)


But their are not enough reputable breeders to buy from and
BYB will always exist to fill in the gap.

JMHO and I respect yours beliefs.

[jenluckenbach]

In Calif. buying from a reputable breeder is actualy cheaper

That is good to know. (and YES< I was generalizing in my statement about charging too much)

BYB are the cheapest $$$, and easier, but when you consider the future vet bills you might end up with, the BYB might not be that cheaper in the long run

But unfortunately, most people do not even consider this when they see all those happy puppies (or kitties, or bunnies.......) running around.

Just like it is often cheaper in the long run to adopt a cat at a no-kill rescue and pay the $50 to $100 adoption fee and have the blood tests, shots, spay/neuter, worming, flea treatment all ready done than taking a FREE TO GOOD HOME kitten out of the newspaper and going to the vet.

People don't consider THAT either.

[Snuggles]

Originally posted by luckies4me
This is why I also do rescue work. I cannot tell you how many rats have been in and out of my home this past year, TONS!!! Heck, the last litter I bred was way back in December, December! I don't breed often, and when I do I have homes lined up for the pups before the pair is even put together, they are all adopted with papers and they are to be returned to me if they cannot keep the animal anymore. I have only had one rat returned to me and that was Ollie, who was to come back here anyway as he went to a daycare facility for the term. My last litter was from a doe that came to me pregnant. I have had NO litters myself this year, reason being is that there are a lots of rats in my area that need homes and I have been spending all my time finding my rescues homes. My motto is, if you don't rescue, don't breed!!! Rescuing aside, there is a very special need for responsible rat breeders, because if we do not better rats as a whole they are still going to have these problems for years to come, and still die horrible painful deaths.

We also do not have "breeds" of rats. We only have types, and you can get several types from a mating. I charge $25 dollars per baby I adopt, sometimes more. This helps keep them out of snakes bellies and out of greedy hands etc. My babies cannot be bred themselves without my written permission first. I think it is absolutely silly to tell everyone to go to the petshop to get a rat, or from a rescue. Rats are VERY different than cats and dogs. Shelter rats most of the time need LOTS of work, work that an inexperienced rat owner cannot do with the rat, and that will only make things worse and most of the time the animal goes back to the shelter and gets tossed around over and over. I only urge experience rat owners to adopt from a shelter, and if not go to a breeder. Yes, there are rats in shelters, but most of those rats came from petshop breeders or irresponsible breeders. I know where EVERY SINGLE ONE of my babies are to this day, and I make wonderful friendships with my adoptees. Not once has a rat of mine been in a shelter, and it will never happen because I care where my babies end up. We need to focus on the people who are supplying the petshops, breeding feeders, and selling babies for an easy buck. I am sick of hearing we don't need rat breeders, because if you truly knew rats, and their health issues you would understand that we DO need responsible breeders, so that the suffering of rats can end. Have you ever seen a rat die from Myco? I have and I cannot tell you how horrible it is to see them die that way. How about tumors? Pyometra? SDA, Sendai? the list goes on and on. These are HORRIBLE illnesses but they can all be eliminated through selective breeding of healthy stock, so that the first time rat owner doesn't have heartache, but happiness and doesn't have to watch their rat die of accute respiratory distress, but of old age, dying peacefully in their sleep on snuggled in their owners pocket.

Besides that, I also have a rescue and I rescue many different kinds of pets. I rarely breed but when I do it is nothing I take lightly. I get at least a hundred rats through my place each year. The list also includes, gerbils, hedgies, short tailed possums, hamsters and whatever else happens to waltz through my door. Ewok was a bottle baby I fed, a rescue. Most of my cats in the past were rescues, as were my dogs. Pooka came from the shelter, as did my corgi mix, as did Morgan. I LOVE shelter dogs!!! They are the best ever! I will continue to go to shelters too. I just took in a feral cat. She is still nervous and I am working on getting her to let me pet her, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. I love my rescues. I want a purebred Boston Terrier but I won't go to a breeder. I am waiting for one to land in a local shelter.

I've resuced some rabbits along the way from other breeders/owners who are long overdue of taking care of their animals. Do I keep them in my barn? I'd love to! But I cant cause i cant have a whole barn full of rescued animals just so they will be in better hands. I guess I should have voted 1/2 & 1/2... Cause I really DO understand your guys's points about shelter animals, but I still want to have my own at the same time. But reality I would rather buy an animal & know its history even though there are many sitting in shelters. JMO - if i got a shelter dog knowing NO history, going there thinking "oh its cute, it needs a home" & then it goes home & takes my arm off how would I react? Where as some responsible breeders who arent here to rip you off or lie to you (which i will admit are rare) could give you a good history of the animals parents temperments & so on & so on. I still tell you I couldnt decide between the two though.