Issuing an open challenge to pro- declawers

[cubby31682]

I have said this before and I will say it again. When I got Cubby my landlord requires that all cats are fixed, declawed, and up to date on all shots. With Cubby's attitude and medical problems he would never have found a home if he went to a shelter. I took him a knew the rules, I had no choice but to get him declawed. If I had owned my own home I never would have had it done. If I get a house tomorrow, I would rather go to a shelter and get a declawed full grown cat that way if the new cat and Cubby don't get along and if they do get into a fight then at least they both will be protected from each others claws. I will never have a cat declawed again, unless it is for pure medical reasons. Such as the nail grows weird and needs to be taken out or what ever.

If I had to make the choice again I would make the same one. Cubby is alive, healthy and happy. What more can I ask for? He was 1 less cat in a shelter, 1 less cat being pts, 1 less cat that didn't find a loving furrever home. That is my opinion, and I will stick with it. If I had my own home though it would have been alot different!
Katie

[catnapper]

Cubby, I think you are an exception. I know PIF is confused about the widespread declawing in America. In England, its basically unheard of. I know a lot of people here would never fault someone for declawing a cat if they had the cat's best interest in mind - ie: you knowing Cubby would have been PTS if you had not adopted him.

I know peope wouldn't fault anyone for declawing if they didn't know better.... a lot of people have theoir cats declawed because that's what they think you do if you're a good cat owner. I know I did until I was informed.

What gets people in an uproar is when they are educated and then opt to declaw anyway. It seems as if a lot of the people who do opt for declaw are thinking about scratching up furniture and other items - just like Cubby's landlord. In Cubby's case, the landlord is to be blamed for the ignorance.

I honestly would like to know what would possess someone to do that to their cat after they knew what possible outcome might happen. I cannot see the wisdom of spening a couple hundred dollars to save a $50 curtain. Or a $20 blanket. It blows my mind. Put that money into a great cat tree and teach the cat to use that for scratching. Oh well, I've said what I feel over on PIF's links.

[Twink]

PIF--Good stuff! I was reading your first arguments on your site, and then looked at some of the pro-declaw sites (somewhat in a state of unpleasant awe that such things exist). The crux of their arguments seems to be that training a cat (squirt bottles, etc), and/or clipping its nails (or, presumably, using Soft Paws) amounts to a constant struggle that stresses out the cat and owner. Whereas, once declawed, a cat and his owner can have a happy, tension-free relationship, and the cat may “scratch” wherever he pleases, and will be the better for it. And isn’t that worth some “discomfort?” (It fascinates me how people use that word when they want to downplay pain). Just thought I’d drag that argument out so that you can address it early!

Somebody should start an inside/outside thread. I could go back and forth on that one for hours, but don’t have the guts to start a flame-inducing thread myself.

[Logan]

On another note - probably suited for another thread, I think that cats are happier with an indoor/outdoor life, provided that the area around them is quiet (no traffic, no dangerous animals around, and that other cats in the area have been neutered/spayed and had their shots).

Randi, I have been lucky. Mimi, and then later, Butter, have had good neighborhoods to hold their excursions. Funny thing that since our move, over 1 1/2 years ago, they stick closer to home than ever! Most of their time is spent inside (their choice), and they mostly go out at nighttime, which makes me feel better for them and for the wildlife that surrounds our home (which they will hunt). Mimi will be 15 years old on the 18th of this month. I must be doing something right!!!!

Logan

[Cataholic]

I have never heard of a landlord requiring that kitties be declawed. I have rented in three different states, always with a cat. I am not saying I don't believe you, just that I have never heard of one doing it.

As for declawing. I will never do it again. Monte (aka bad boy Monte) is 9 months old. He has 'four on the floor'. While there has been an occasion or two where I have screamed, 'Monte! No!', it is rare. In fact, the most damage comes from the guys performing their own version of the Indianapolis 500 on my wood table top, or my bed. Lovely tears in the wood, in the cloth. Oh well, I have cats! Cats do things like that. Just like kids. Kids vomit, they destroy, they colour the walls, etc. Should I chop off their hands?

And, btw, lest someone think I am 'all talk'...I just purchased a LOVELY BRAND NEW sofa for USD1500. And, a complementing chair for USD500. Know what my biggest worry is? That Tex won't like laying on this chair as much as the last one (it is a wood framed one, and won't offer the same level of protectivenss). The sofa? That the back of the sofa won't be as accomodating to creating the divets that serve as comfy beds for the cats.

I have quite easily learned to clip Monte's nails. I only wish I would have known then what I know now. I, too, look on with guilt when I look at the other kitty's front paws.

[PayItForward]

So how commen is it for USA landlords to insist on declawing ?

Can people post or PM me, if you have heard of a landlord that insists on declawing . Current count 1 for Cubby landlord)

[catcrazylady]

My mother had both of her cats declawed after I gave tons of lectures against it. She was left with a choice by her (at that time) soon to be husband. The cats get declawed or they don't get married. Now I know what I would have said but mom did it anyway. She was very sad the first few days while she watched them in so much pain. I did the I told you so's but it was too late. Both of her cats are doing very well and mom and her new hubby are very happy that they had it done. I now know that no matter what I say mom will always declaw her cats (if there are any more ever in her future). I'm very torn about this as I know that had she not done it the cats would have been turned into the shelter. I go to her house and see two very happy, lovable, and playful kitties that are the best of friends. I can't help but wonder if it's the lesser of two really bad evils. I don't know if these two would be alive today if they had been turned into the shelter.
I have never had a cat declawed and I never will. The shelter where I volunteer makes you agree to never declaw before they will let you adopt.
When I think about moms cuties, Andy and Barney, it makes me think that if that is the only option besides shelter life then maybe it's worth it. I will always preach against it and I will continue to educate but if it was that versus caged in a shelter I don't know how hard I would push against it. I do think it is very cruel and unnecessary but so is living in a tiny cage picking up all kinds of illness's and praying that maybe someone will like you and take you home. Some of these cats spend years in a shelter and that is beyond cruel to me. Some never make it out. If it was that versus declaw I would choose declaw. If I had the option to spend my time in a tiny cell, sick and old knowing that I may never get out unless I had my fingers removed from the knuckle I think I would go with having my fingers removed. I think it would be worth it just to have freedom, fresh air, and hopefully people who would love me even if they were ignorant and thought I need my fingers cut off.
Am I making sense? Please do not think I'm pro declaw because I am not. I'm a shelter volunteer who sees tons of suffering and it just makes me wonder which really is the lesser.

[Uabassoon]

I know that my sisters landlord required that cats be declawed, she lives in Washington D.C. I was quite amazed and pleased with my sister when she put herself on a waiting list at the shelter and 2 months later adopted Nick, an 8 year old previously declawed cat.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
I know that my sisters landlord required that cats be declawed, she lives in Washington D.C. I was quite amazed and pleased with my sister when she put herself on a waiting list at the shelter and 2 months later adopted Nick, an 8 year old previously declawed cat.

Oh yes I remember your sister kept visiting declawed cats until she fell in love with one...

[sirrahbed]

Like Katie's Cubby - there will always be exceptions and cases that can't be faulted. Like I said, if I was faced with an ultimatum of declaw or lose my pet - I would sadly declaw to keep my pet! I also don't see the furniture argument because MY furniture is shredded from BACK claws. My arms and legs both bear proof of back claw damage! I figure it goes with having a cat!! Trimming helps but scratching still happens accidentally.

I keep my kitties indoors because there are too many dogs running free plus traffic. It would be wonderful to live out in the country and be able to leave the door open and have kitties free to roam I would think - but not in the city! This may be part of the reason declaw is so much more common in the US? .....cats as pets are usually kept indoors?? Well, at least the people I know of keep their cats indoors but it is for safety reasons. I also worry about fleas - but then I understand that better products are now available - drops once a month and such.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by catcrazylady
When I think about moms cuties, Andy and Barney, it makes me think that if that is the only option besides shelter life then maybe it's worth it.

I hope you don't mind my reply :)

But that if where I get confused it is never a decision between home & shelter...it is a decision between:-

:Soft paws and keep
:Train to a post and keep
:Trim claws and keep
:Give to shelter
:Declaw have no problems and keep
:Declaw have problems give to shelter

Arranged in order of MY perference ;)

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by catcrazylady
Am I making sense? Please do not think I'm pro declaw because I am not. I'm a shelter volunteer who sees tons of suffering and it just makes me wonder which really is the lesser.

Yes, CCL I am with you here. There are always exceptions - sad, but true.
One thing I wonder about - if I get more cats - do I have to worry about them hurting my already declawed cats??? I am willing to adopt only already declawed and unwanted adults if I need to.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
Yes, CCL I am with you here. There are always exceptions - sad, but true.
One thing I wonder about - if I get more cats - do I have to worry about them hurting my already declawed cats??? I am willing to adopt only already declawed and unwanted adults if I need to.

I hear declawed and clawed cats get on but as you say whilst plenty of declawed cats need homes, adopting them is a viable solution.

[cubby31682]

When I got Cubby, I begged the landlord to let me get him softpaws, she said that was more cruel than to declaw them. I knew it was safer and easier. I always thought that they just pulled the claw out like a toe nail. I didn't know that they cut off part of the digit. I did try, I begged, I pleaded, and I offered to pay more. Her response was A: don't get the cat let it go to a shelter, B: get the cat let her find out that I didn't have him declawed get kicked out and try to find a new apartment, or C: get him declawed and live with the guilt. I choose C. He likes to bite, he always has since he was a baby. Since before I got him. With him jumping at my face because I wont let him 'releave' him self just for that alone I know he wouldn't have been able to find a home. I love my little baby more than anything.

If I had the option to spend my time in a tiny cell, sick and old knowing that I may never get out unless I had my fingers removed from the knuckle I think I would go with having my fingers removed.

I agree, I would to.

I wish I wouldn't have got him declawed, I see his paws and I still want to cry. In my mind though I had no choice at all. Taking him to a shelter was NOT at option for me. I was not willing to let him go there just to be PTS, when I was more than willing to take him and his 'wild' nature on and care for him and love him.

[catcrazylady]

Originally posted by PayItForward
I hope you don't mind my reply

But that if where I get confused it is never a decision between home & shelter...it is a decision between:-

:Soft paws and keep
:Train to a post and keep
:Trim claws and keep
:Give to shelter
eclaw have no problems and keep
eclaw have problems give to shelter

Arranged in order of MY perference

I so agree with you PIF! I talked to my mother about soft paws and nail trimming and scratching post training but to no avail. I have come to the conclusion (just my observation) that sometimes declawing is done out of pure laziness. There are people who will declaw knowing all the dangers just because it is simpler for them. Everybody wants a carefree pet and cats fall into thay catagory because they use the litter box, you can leave them for several days, and if they can't scratch anything then they will be perfect! I really believe a lot of people feel this way. It is very very sad but the majority of people who do love their pets are not as attached to them as we PTers are. They love them and care for them and meet their needs but they are still an animal in the minds of owners. It makes me sick and I can't understand that way of thinking but it is true.
I really think that a whole lot of it boils down to our over-worked and over-stressed lifestyles. People don't feel like they have time enough at home to do all the necessary training. If they are declawed then they can just come home, snuggle the cute kitty and go on with life. You and I know that some behaviorial issues can come about because of it but some people just don't care. They will deal with that if it happens and if it's bad enough they will just get another cat and get rid of the declawed one. All of these terrible things I'm saying are unfortunately the way many many people are.
Again, am I making sense? I have so much trouble expressing myself. I always feel like I can't find the right words.