England & Canada question

[Nomilynn]

This is the first job I've had where my benefits are over and above my pay scale, so in actual fact, I am not paying anything for it this time. I'm paid a basic rate of pay, PLUS premiums and benefits. With my last job, my provincial health care came out of my own pocket - so I paid for it on my own.

I still would rather pay these premiums out of pocket than go to a system like that of the USA - without it, I would not have survived being laid off this past year because I would not have been able to pay for my prescriptions. As long as I pay my monthly premiums, I am covered and for me, at least, it's a way better system.

[blue]

Enough of the thread highjack, the OP's question has been answered.

[Lady's Human]

Whodathunkit? Blue's a moderator?

[Medusa]

Enough of the thread highjack, the OP's question has been answered.

Monica asked questions and people are answering. How is that highjacking? Seriously, blue, go have another helping of bacon. You're cranky.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Why just Canada and the UK? Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc. etc. also have so-called Universal Healthcare.

It would be easier to list developed nations that do NOT have it.

In addition to asking how people like it...you should ask how well does it work. If Canada and UK deny medical care to the elderly - you would expect to see shorter life expectancy. The US is 24th in life expectancy - compared to UK at 14th and Canada at 12th.

In overall measurement of the quality of healthcare (infant mortality, etc.) the US ranks 37th.

Yet the only country that spends more on healthcare as a percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the Marshall Islands.

You can read more about the US compared to other countries at World Health Organization http://www.who.int/en/

[Nomilynn]

Enough of the thread highjack, the OP's question has been answered.

I certainly hope this was not directed toward me, as my answers have been in response to the original questions and the ensuing responses to my posts. I think that counts as staying on topic.

I recently saw on the news that someone had hired a Canadian to come to the states and do an add against the Canadian Health System, because she had a bad experience and ended up having surgery in the US (I think she had to remortgage her house to pay for it). I think it is important to say that everyone has to be on top of their own health. If you don't like the answer from your own doctor, go see another one. That is another advantage to this system - you can see whatever doctor you want, anywhere in the province, and it doesn't cost you anything to do it and get 2nd opinions.

[Cataholic]

I pay for health insurance. I just paid $133 for a 20 day supply of antibiotics for J, another sinus infection. Thank GOD that the ENT didn't require a office visit ($238), and just called in the prescription. With my health insurance, the company pays the first $2000. I pay the next $3000. LOL. AND I pay the premiums. For what? Ever have a child need therapy? J's speech is $178 a week. Do the math...I am paying for the cruddiest coverage.

We need a change to our health care system. It has to start with those dirty words- insurance companies.

[phesina]

I'm the evil hijacker, because after Marigold posted her questions about the English and Canadian systems, I also asked our British and Canadian friends (and, for that matter, those of other countries with national health plans) whether they'd rather have a system like ours.

I certainly wasn't trying to "hijack" any discussion, which I'm not sure what that means but I gather it implies I'm trying to steer it towards a particular point of view. I'm not, but I would also like facts and honest answers pro and con regarding the different systems, which it seemed to me was what Marigold was looking for.

This is a HUGE issue in our country right now, and I would like to know as much as I can on just what we are talking about here and what might be at stake.. based on FACTS, not on lies, which the e-mail Marigold got appears to be full of and which are being disseminated all around.

What ARE the down-sides of national health care systems? (I already have pretty good ideas of the down-sides of ours.)

Are there many people in those countries who would prefer a system like ours? And if so, do you have actual experience of ours, or if not, what do you hear about it or know about it in your country?

In all my years of being uninsured I, like our Canadian and English friends, have never been denied health care. Unlike our Canadian and English friends, I paid for it myself.

Blue, how many thousands and thousands of dollars are you talking about here? Was this health care for anything like lengthy hospitalizations or extensive surgery or intensive-care-unit stays or treatment for degenerative diseases? And I take it that if you ever are faced with such, you'll be able to pay for it yourself?

My stepdad was born and raised in BC and has nothing good to say about the health care system there.

I know in Canada HC differs from province to province so maybe Sparks will chime in with her experience.

Blue, I would really like to hear more about what your stepdad does not like about the Canadian system. Does he live in this country now? If so, I'd like to hear his thoughts on our system and why he thinks it is better. Thank you.

And I hope that Sparks WILL contribute to this discussion, since she has lived with both systems and will be able to speak with experience about the differences and how they have affected the lives of her and her family.

[Marigold2]

Thank you all for the info which I am passing on to my friend Dr. Dave. As a retired physian he is much interested in everyone's views from around the world. PT is full of intelligent people with valid opinions well thought out.
I lived in Germany over 30 years ago and loved their health care system. I had my first born there.
Some ways I feel that America can cut health care cuts were being done there so many years ago.
For instance.
1) We were four to a room
2) No phone
3) No TV
4) Simple yet good meals.
5) No bathroom, it was down the hall and shared by all on that floor.
6) No visitors in room, we went to a common area.
7) Hospital stay 30 years ago 9 days
8) My cost ZERO.
If we had this instead of private rooms that looked like plush hotels, cable, phone, and all the extras we could save millions of dollars.
I would like to hear everyone's thoughts.
And thanks again to all the intelligent PT people, that includes Blue Too.

[Laura's Babies]

I would love to see more people answer and hear more! Is there anybody else out there?

[emily_the_spoiled]

As someone who was born in Canada, lived there for over 30 years, and was a practicing health care professional before moving to the USA I have had experience in both systems. (I no longer practice in the US but I do research into access and quality of care in the US.)

While neither system is "perfect" neither are they totally "wrong". Both of them can not continue on the development path that they are currently on ... it is unsustainable because of the expense.

Yes there are waiting lists in Canada, where you end up on the list depends upon how sick you are. For example, a couple of years ago my 40 yo BIL ended up in the hospital because he collapsed at home (in Canada). The first thing they did was a MRI and it turns out he had a beign tumour and they operated that night (he is fine today). If he had gone into the MD and said he had a headache he would not have received the MRI or emergency surgery, but then again it is unlikely he would have received an MRI here either. He might have been put on a waiting list if he had chronic headaches of unknown origin, but he was sick enough to skip to the top of the list and receive the care he needed with no copayments or deductibles.

If he had been in the US, he would have also received immediate care if he was admitted into the hospital, but he likely would not have had insurance because he is a real estate agent. This means that he would have had to pay the full cost of everything. Even if he did have insurance he would have copayments or deductibles.

In Canada you wait based on how ill you are, while in the US you wait based on how good your insurance is or how much money you have. Which is fair?

[Nomilynn]

In Canada you wait based on how ill you are, while in the US you wait based on how good your insurance is or how much money you have. Which is fair?

Excellent post!

This pretty much sums up what I meant about people taking charge of their own health. Just because the doctor tells you you are fine, doesn't mean that you are, and it is up to everyone to be persistant and make someone listen when they say they don't feel "right" - I am lucky that I have such a great doctor in BC, he will listen to whatever I need. I think it might be the people who don't want to "be a bother" that end up suffering. My grandmother was like this - when she died we found out that her doctor suspected she might have ovarian cancer, but she hadn't told him until about 6 months from when she noticed symptoms! It's so important to be really pro-active in your own care.

[Edwina's Secretary]

As I read the editorials in this morning's papers I was again struck by the focus on comparing healthcare in the US to healthcare in Canada and the UK. Why are all the other countries with universal healthcare ignored?

Isn't it possible we could learn things - good and bad - if we broadened the scope?

[Laura's Babies]

Why are all the other countries with universal healthcare ignored?

I don't think they are being ignored, it is just that we don't know what countries have universal healthcare. The ones mentioned here are the the only ones we hear about here in the USA.

We would love hearing from them ALL! Pros and cons.. If you can add anything, we would love to hear from you too! We are just looking for answers so we can make an informed decision..

[blue]

I certainly hope this was not directed toward me.

No it wasnt.

I'm the evil hijacker, because after Marigold posted her questions about the English and Canadian systems, I also asked our British and Canadian friends (and, for that matter, those of other countries with national health plans) whether they'd rather have a system like ours.

Never called you evil, only that it should be a different thread. The OP asked for opinions of their health care systems, not a comparison of theirs to ours. I really would have liked to have seen how the English, Canadians, Germans, and other socialist countries rated their systems, without comparing them to other countries.

I certainly wasn't trying to "hijack" any discussion, which I'm not sure what that means but I gather it implies I'm trying to steer it towards a particular point of view. I'm not, but I would also like facts and honest answers pro and con regarding the different systems, which it seemed to me was what Marigold was looking for.

I dont think you meant to steer the discussion in any way but your question had the unintended consequence of doing so and it did.

The rest of your questions Ill gladly answer in another thread.