Max

[Medusa]

Forgive me but I wonder if the needle really is causing him that much pain because you switched to a thinner gauge, correct? The initial pin prick only hurts for a second, as we know, and after that it really doesn't hurt them. I do know what you mean about his running and hiding, though. When my Puddy saw me coming, she beat feet, too, but she always felt so much better afterwards that I felt better, too. Now it's Pidge who refuses to sit down during the treatment and I have to administer it while she stands up and tries to bolt. I've noticed lately, though, that she does have loose stools after a treatment. Gosh, it's so difficult to know what to do. Ultimately, you know Max better than anyone and if you truly feel that his quality of life is gone or significantly diminished, then you have your answer. I wish it was easier. (((HUGS)))

[Taz_Zoee]

Well, I just have to applaud both of you (Slick and Mary) on giving fluids by yourself. There's no way I could have done Taz's alone. I would have taken him to the vet every other day if Bruce wasn't here.
Did they show you to gently massage the area where the fluid is going in to help the flow go better? At least I think that's what it did. I did that, but sometimes that would make him jumpy. I think maybe because I'd rub too close to the needle.

I'm still hoping he gets better soon.

[slick]

Forgive me but I wonder if the needle really is causing him that much pain because you switched to a thinner gauge, correct?

I went back to the larger one because the smaller one was taking 15-20 min and after about 5 min he was getting really antsy. I may try the smaller one again, but tonight I'm giving him a night off. I'll see what the vet says tomorrow morning.

Taz - it is a two person job and my good friend and neighbour down the hall comes over every night to assist. I don't know I would do without her. No, they didn't show my about the massaging bit but I'm sure that would make him go berserk. I'll try to call you on Sunday night.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Lots of prayers flying from me for you both. Extra on the way for tomorrow's vet visit!!!

[RedHedd]

I'm wondering why it's hurting him so much. When I was giving Mishi fluids, they showed me how to pull the loose skin up from the neck and put the needle into that loose skin. The vet showed me where there were virtually no nerves so it shouldn't hurt them very much, if at all.

Of course, all cats are different when it comes to treatment. While I know Mitzi behaves and lets the vet techs do what they need to do when she's there, when it's her meowmie doing it at home, she knows to run and hide. I dread the day I have to give her Sub-Q's and hope it's a long way off, although she's been having good and bad days too and I know it's her kidneys. She's being watched closely.

[phesina]

Do you think it would help if you warmed the fluid up before giving it to Max? I've seen it make a difference in some cases. I gather that room temperature fluid flowing into the cat's system can be uncomfortable because it is much cooler than the bodily temperature.

Put the fluid bag in a sink basin or bowl full of warm water, enough to cover it, for a few minutes. Then, when the bag feels warm (but not hot), hang it up again and administer the fluid to the cat.

Sending prayers for you and Max as you both work so hard to make this time comfortable for him.

Hugs and purrs,
Pat and cats

P.S., I also lit a candle: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/...ng&cid=8749714

[kb2yjx]

I have not read this thread, and I am so sorry about your Max!!! I am not a pro, but in the past, I have had 7 cats with kidney disease. I found this site: www.felinecrf.org to be very helpful. Helen, the woman who runs the site, is very knowledgeable.If you have a question, she does answer(she did when I had a problem). Per her suggestion, I put the needles in the freezer before inserting them into my cat. It worked several times. Like phesina said, it really helps to warm up the fluids. I use 18gx1" needles. Once the needle is in, I open the control all the way, and let the fluid go in. Unlike the needle being in a vein, there is no chance that an infiltration will occur. It goes much faster. I can hydrate a real fussy cat in about three minutes---tops. I have tried the smaller needles, but, like you found, it took FOREVER for the 100cc's to go in...and when the cat thinks it is time to move on, it is really hard to keep them still so all the fluid can go in. I hope this may help....and I will light a candle for your boy....Take Care....also, I have usually Mozart on the CD's, that seems to help the cat relax...That photo has Boo getting her sub q fluids, supervised by Nicholas(both RB Angels)....Sandra

[Grace]

Take Care....also, I have usually Mozart on the CD's, that seems to help the cat relax...That photo has Boo getting her sub q fluids, supervised by Nicholas(both RB Angels)....Sandra

Interesting about the Mozart. With my cats, it has always been Bach that soothed them.

[kb2yjx]

Actually, Grace, I forgot that the cats seem to enjoy Bach, as well....also Samuel Barber's Adaggio for Strings....

[emily_the_spoiled]

I had to give Oliver sub-q fluids for about six months and I found that warming the fluids helped ALOT. I had an extender set that gave me more IV line to work with and I just put the IV line in a warm water bath so it was warmed as it went through the line.

The other thing I did was to give Oliver some "treats" while running the fluids. The treats could be dry food (I don't feed dry food normally so it is a treat) or some canned wet food. This would keep him still long enough for the fluids to be administered. (BTW I also use an 18 gauge needle)

[slick]

OMG, what a great idea to warm up the solution and the line. My neighbour did mention last week that the solution could be cool going in, but I never thought about warming it up. I'll definitely try that if I have him home tonight. I am also using an 18 gauge needle but I have the smaller 20 gauge ones too.

As for feeding him during treatment, well he always stands up to eat so I'm not sure how practical that will be but hey, I'll give anything a go right now. I'll try the treats first and if that doesn't work, I know he'll go for the Fancy Feast.

He didn't eat as much last night as he has been but he did have a very small poop. Right now he is sleeping peacefully on the dining room chair, oblivious to the fact that an hour from now he'll be with Dr. Singh.

I also have to say, and put in a plug for my vet. Dr. Singh is the absolute best ever. He is caring, compassionate, patient with me and let's me pay him off in installments. He always returns my phone calls and answers all my questions in terms that I understand. I've been with him since 1997 and what a blessing it is to have someone who gives me the straight goods and not pussyfoot (excuse the pun ) around.

Well, I'm off to get ready.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Based on my experience with Oliver eating during the fluids, it was never a problem and it made it sooooooooooo much easier because he would then stand in on stop

[Lizzie]

I'm sure warming the fluids, both the bag and line, will make a big difference in how Max accepts the fluids. It will take a few sessions before he realizes it isn't uncomfortable any more, of course, but then he will be "normally" antsy about it. Watching your cat's behavior/reaction and trying to assess what they are telling you can be a very difficult translation job. I thought Diego was hiding from me because he was already in some pain when it was time for his meds, which are given through an oesophageal tube because the pain is in his mouth, but it finally dawned on me that the pain meds (given always in warm water) might be hard on his stomach. Now I give about 20cc of well warm watered down baby food first and he's started letting me scoop him up more easily and will relax and purr while the procedure is done. Sometimes you feel so dumb that you didn't figure things out sooner.

I hope you can get Max into a plateau time, that can last for many, many months, where he is coping with treatment and has a fair quality of life.

[slick]

They kept my baby boy overnight. I pick him up at 10am tomorrow morning. He is extremely dehydrated in spite of my efforts.

On my way to work now.

[gini]

Oh, baby Max - please get better for your Mom.