Vote Here!

[Kfamr]

I am a Christian and I support the gay/lesbian community.

KUDOS to you for that!

[lizbud]

I don't have time right now for a detailed post but I have to say this......it sounds like you live a sheltered life, at least thinking you have no gay people around you.
I can tell, without a doubt, that you don't really know any gay people too well do you? Because you seem to assume alot and choose not to become familiar with gays and become educated, I can put little or no faith in what you say at all.
Your arrogance and lack of knowledge is astounding.

D& D, I basically put her ideas down to her youth & inexperience in life.
I think PCB has a good heart, but is a product of her limited enviroment &
experiences.

[Lady's Human]

It amazes me how many people have missed one of the basic tenets of Christianity. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Whether you personally believe that it's a sin or not, there's no excuse for the hatred surrounding the issue.

[Daisy and Delilah]

D& D, I basically put her ideas down to her youth & inexperience in life.
I think PCB has a good heart, but is a product of her limited enviroment &
experiences.

Thanks Liz. I agree with you. I think she has a good heart too. I hope she will have the chance in her life to meet a more diversified people. It's my wish that she will learn more and more every day.

[popcornbird]

Hey everyone.

I really don't see the point in going into a long detailed post and continuing the argument on this issue anymore. I sat and thought about it, and can clearly see that there are two reasons why we disagree on this issue.

#1. You believe gays were born that way. I honestly don't believe that at all. This is my main reasoning for not considering it discrimination. I do not believe, at all, that God made them that way.

#2. I believe in my religion as the truth from God, and anything God has said in the Quran is a fact to me, not an opinion. I believe that God made us, and as the One Who made us, He knows what is best for us. He loves us, and it is because He loves us that He has given us rules and guidelines to follow in life. If He did not love us, He would not have sent Prophets to us. He would not have sent Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, peace be upon them all, with His Word to mankind. He would not have made Himself known to us. But He did...and He wants us to do what is best for us. When you do not believe in what I do, you will not see it in the same way...BUT...

at the same time, I know quite a bit about Christianity, have Bibles at home, and know that many of the teachings in the Bible are the same as those in the Quran. I believe that when any of us claim to believe in something, especially in a religion, if we truly believe in our hearts that it is the true revelation from God, we should believe in everything it says, whether it pleases us or not. I am not a hypocrite in anything that I said. I am a Muslim, and I follow every rule in my religion to the best that I can. That includes no adultery, no fornication, no homosexuality, no gambling, no usury, no alcohol, no pork, etc. So...you really need to think twice before you use that hypocrite word where it doesn't fit. It makes me sad when I see Christians claiming to believe in Christianity, but do not think twice about what they're doing or supporting, regardless of how great a sin it is in their very own book. I can't help but feel that people who claim to be something, but do not follow their own teachings, really don't BELIEVE in what they say at all.

I really believe in my religion, and I have thousands of reasons for that, from which I will never leave regardless of what life experiences throw at me. I know that God knows better than we do. Practicing my faith has only brought me happiness and joy in my life, and I know that if I stick to God's teachings, God will reward me after I have left this world, regardless of what people in this world will say.

Regarding my children, I did not answer because the question doesnt make sense. How do you suppose a 23 year old woman who doesn't yet have any kids will know from today, what she would react to something that most likely will never happen 20-25 years from now? I don't know. I don't believe my kids will ever be gay, because I do not believe anyone is born like that, AND, us Muslims learn disipline in a way that most people never learn, from the very beginning. We have the ability to stay away from sex before marriage. We have the ability to pray, 5 times every day to God, at the prescribed times, regardless of whether that means leaving class or work or stopping at the side of the highway to do so. We have the ability to go without food, water, and intimacy with our spouses, from sunrise until sunset, for an entire month, every year, in the month of Ramadan. All for the sake of making God pleased with us. That takes serious determination, and all 1.2 billion of us do that every single year. Our life is very diciplined. We do what God commands, and stay away from what God has forbidden, and most Muslims who are true to their faith stick to the criteria. Our children do the same. I go to a mosque where thousands of people attend, and I sometimes go even everyday. I have never heard of anyone from the mosque turning gay, and I'm pretty sure no one has issues with their kids because of that. Its all about environment. You don't turn gay if you have an environment where everyone is doing things to please God. You will always have this feeling that God is watching you, Satan is whispering to you, and you need to defeat Satan by not answering to his call. He's our enemy, and He was the enemy of the first human beings (Adam and Eve), and we believe that we have to be aware of him all the time.

As for caring about what people do in their bedrooms...sometimes you have to care for the sake of society. If everyone followed proper ettiquettes when it comes to 'the bedroom deed', we would have less unwanted children for society to worry about, less STD's, and healthier families. And THAT is what I would love to have in our society. THAT is why I voted yes. I feel that regardless of our individual beliefs, we NEED a better environment with strong families to create a stong society for the well being of our children. We do not have strong moral fibers in America when it comes to family life. Divorce rate here is higher than any other country. Its a fact when we say there is a problem here in the strength of families and the moral structure. I am not as ignorant as you think...I have travelled the world, and have seen different societies, and have seen the difference. For example, from my time in some Eurpoean countries, I got the feeling that moral values are still a little better in America than they are in Europe. I might be wrong, but that is the impression that I got. People are more ignorant when they haven't seen society, but I have seen the society in the East, and grew up in the West from the time I was born. I live in California and mingle with the people here, both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. And surprisingly, a great deal of my Christian friends agree with me on my stance...so I know I'm not alone.

I also realize most of you have a good heart, and I know that from the many years I've visted pet talk. So I too agree to disagree, because I guarantee you that if you come to visit me when I'm an 80 year old lady with a cane and white hair, I will still be telling you homosexuality, as well as other big sins, is wrong.

[Catty1]

PCB - as time goes along, if you have friends who are gay, or meet people who are, ask them about it being a choice.

You may have friends who are - but if they know your feelings on the subject, they may not say anything at all about it.

All I am suggesting is - educate yourself.

[Puckstop31]

It amazes me how many people have missed one of the basic tenets of Christianity. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Whether you personally believe that it's a sin or not, there's no excuse for the hatred surrounding the issue.

+1 See my post in the "radio piece" thread.

[Karen]

I'm not sure if it made national news, but the Ban on Greyhound Racing passed in Massachusetts. The major media outlets only seemed to cover the "income tax ban" ballot measure, which was resoundingly defeated, but didn't mention the racing one, which was a close race.

[beeniesmom]

Yes, I am happy about that too (post#103)!

PCB, thank you for your post. You explained yourself in a very civil and educational way.
We will bring this up again when we are 80 year old women but for now... peace!

[JenBKR]

It makes me sad when I see Christians claiming to believe in Christianity, but do not think twice about what they're doing or supporting, regardless of how great a sin it is in their very own book. I can't help but feel that people who claim to be something, but do not follow their own teachings, really don't BELIEVE in what they say at all.

I wasn't going to respond, but I feel that I have to address this. Christians understand that the first testament is God's law, and the second is Man's law. This means that Jesus changed everything. His main point was to love everyone - as LH said, love the sinner, hate the sin. That is one of my favorite expressions, and one I try to remind myself of daily. We are ALL sinners. Every sin is equal, except not believing that Jesus is the Lord and Savior. Judging others is one of those sins. I respect your opinion, but supporting others and loving them for who they are does not make me less of a Christian. I AM following my own teachings by not judging and loving others.

[Cataholic]

I echo JenBKR's post. I love the preachiness of posts that espouse what their God says and doesn't say, and how it means someone else's belief must be wrong. Just makes no sense at all to me. And, to throw numbers into it, and talk in terms of the majority, all countries, all humans, etc., should advance an argument no further than the atrocities that went along with WWII. Many people thought Hitler was 'right', too.

I am thankful that I live in a society that is slowly changing its ways in terms of discrimination. I find it interesting that on a pet site, even in the DH, that the focus of this thread was on homosexuality rather than the horror the animals face at slaughter- both big issues on the California ballot. To think that some humans care more about what goes on in someone's bedroom than the horror of the slaughter/treatment of innocent animals is baffling.

If that is worshiping your God, no thanks. I will stick with my God.

[caseysmom]

I echo JenBKR's post. I love the preachiness of posts that espouse what their God says and doesn't say, and how it means someone else's belief must be wrong. Just makes no sense at all to me. And, to throw numbers into it, and talk in terms of the majority, all countries, all humans, etc., should advance an argument no further than the atrocities that went along with WWII. Many people thought Hitler was 'right', too.

I am thankful that I live in a society that is slowly changing its ways in terms of discrimination. I find it interesting that on a pet site, even in the DH, that the focus of this thread was on homosexuality rather than the horror the animals face at slaughter- both big issues on the California ballot. To think that some humans care more about what goes on in someone's bedroom than the horror of the slaughter/treatment of innocent animals is baffling.

If that is worshiping your God, no thanks. I will stick with my God.

I couldn't agree with you more and thank god prop 2 won by a large majority. But you would cringe if you drove around in my area a few days before the election it was scary and backward.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

This was the first election I was able to vote in. It was pretty exciting!
I was extremly happy to hear that Obama was elected and Proposition 2 passed.

------

And, I actually took the time to read each and every single post in this thread.
(I know, lazy Saturday. )

PCB, I have known you for years on Pet Talk and you have been a wonderful friend to me. I have also known your views towards homosexuals and everything that revolves around this topic.

And of course, you are entitled to your own opinions, as is everyone else.
OPINIONS.
Not blatant attacks.

I found most of your posts to be very, very hurtful. I could literally feel my heart sink to the pit of my stomach reading through some of your sentences.

I am not going to start anything up, nor do I want to.
But, in my short 19 years of life, I have come across many people.
Gay, Lesbian, Straight. All of it.
I was brought up by both of my parents and was taught from the very beginning to treat other people with complete respect, whether they were white, black, green, blue, yellow, gay, straight, bisexual.. whatever. You get the picture.

In MY opinion, no one has the right to tell other people who they can love, who they can marry, who they can raise children with. No one.

No proposition, no law, no individual, can say it is "wrong."

I will not turn this into a religious and/or personal debate, but I thought marriage was based around the general idea of wanting to live and share your own life with someone whom you deeply love, admire, and respect (and can actually tolerate, most of the time ). How gender plays a role in determining this, I will never be able to understand.

Agree to disagree, I suppose.

I echo JenBKR's post. I love the preachiness of posts that espouse what their God says and doesn't say, and how it means someone else's belief must be wrong. Just makes no sense at all to me. And, to throw numbers into it, and talk in terms of the majority, all countries, all humans, etc., should advance an argument no further than the atrocities that went along with WWII. Many people thought Hitler was 'right', too.

I completely and totally agree.

[lizbud]

I'm not sure if it made national news, but the Ban on Greyhound Racing passed in Massachusetts. The major media outlets only seemed to cover the "income tax ban" ballot measure, which was resoundingly defeated, but didn't mention the racing one, which was a close race.

I did see that the Greyhound Ban did win. They said it would take effect
in 2010, right? I found all state & national results on MSNBC, I think.