PT Prayers for Tiger...

[Emeraldgreen]

Catty1 wrote:

Here's part of an email from Emeraldgreen I got this morning. PT Prayers can work wonders...and any suggestions to help Tiger. I suggested plain vaporizing again without the Vicks - hopefully that will loosen stuff so Tiger can cough it up. Are there stronger antibiotics that anyone knows of?

Thank you Candace so much for starting this thread on behalf of Tiger. It's very kind and I think I didn't do it myself because I've posted so many times about him and asked for so much advice already and I just didn't know what else to say or ask at this point.
Also, thanks for posting all the detailed info in your post. It made me think of a product that I see commercials for about getting rid of mucous. It has those cartoon guys that are little blobs of mucous (yuck!) and it gets rid of them. I'll see if I can find it and look into it to see if it's safe for cats.

But in true PT form, everyone has been so helpful and caring and it means a great deal. Thank you to everyone who posted in this thread and for caring about Tiger and his well being. It's so great and I really appreciate it.

kb2yjx wrote:

Back in February, our soon to be 16 yr old Norton, had a terrible URI. I used the vaporizor, but I also mixed up GOLD SEAL Elixir(available at health food shops). I took several dops of the exilir and put it into about 30cc's of normal saline. And with the help of an army, Barry and I put 2 drops in each nostril several times a day. The gold seal helps in relieving the congestion and reduces the inflamation(sp) of the mucos membranes. Maybe that will help your boy!!! Sending prayers along, too.....

PS: If you can get a copy of Anitra Frazier"s the " New Natural Cat " this info is in there!!!

I will look for this today at our local health food store. I tried to Google it but only found vinegar products. It sounds like it might really help so I hope I can find it. I'll also check at the library to see if they have 'The New Natural Cat' book.

Catmandu wrote:

I AM GETTING A BOOK ON HERBAL REMEDIES FOR MICHAEL AND BO BO, AND ONE FOR SORE TEETH FOR JJJ3 MONDAY.
IF I SEE ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP TIGER I WOULD BE GLAD TO PASS IT ON, ALONG WITH OUR PRAYERS FOR YOUR DEAR FRIENDS RECOVERY.

That would be great if you find anything in the book that might help. Thanks for looking!

Romy wrote:

A couple of suggestions for precious Tiger:

http://www.nativeremedies.com/petali...dog-noses.html

And the following from a vet:
OPEN THE AIRWAYS. For some cats with severe nasal congestion I have used Pediatric Otrivin. Use one drop in each nostril 3 times daily for 3-5 days.

This really interests me but I'm concerned about the amount of time it will take to get here by mail. I've ordered something from this company before, I can't remember what but it was for Tiger and it does take weeks to get here. But I think I might still order it because it could also be useful for my other cats with respiratory issues (Jimmy and George). Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm also going to look at the Pediatric Otrivin and will decide between that and the Gold Seal to see which might be best to try.

Brody's Mum wrote:

Poor Tiger. Is there anyway that he could get a change of environment? A couple of days away from all the household stresses might help. I would imagine that with constant viewings etc you have upped the cleaning and use of chemicals which may be aggravating his condition

These are both good thoughts but for the last two showings, we've put Tiger in the outdoor enclosure so he doesn't have to go in the truck with the barking dogs. Also, we've been putting them outside in the enclosure (4 of them) before we start getting the house ready so they aren't stressed by our moving things around and vacuuming etc..
I do mop all the floors each time but I use hot water and just a dash of liquid dish soap, hardly any at all so I think he isn't being affected by the cleaning. We do spray a bit of Febreeze, but not much and it's a few hours before he comes back inside. I hate using chemicals myself as I'm ultra sensitive to that kind of thing. I just use hot water and a minimum amount of dish soap to wash the counters too. He doesn't get up on the counters anyway.
I do wonder if I should switch the litter though. We did switch them to Swheat Scoop a month ago and it was good because there is no silica in it for the cats to breathe in or us. But the mess it made with tracking was unbelivable!! We were finding little pieces of wheat on our socks, in our bed, everywhere! My husband was really unhappy with it. But, I might talk with him again today about switching back. It's not as if the clay scoopable is much better. It tracks everywhere too. We should probably just pick up some tracking mats to improve the situation.

Jenn_Librarian wrote:

We used nose drops on a cat at the shelter too... his name is Calvin. He had some kind of nasal tumor too as I remember. He looked like crap for a long time, but I just saw him last monday, and he's is looking amazing. I'd definitely see if you can use nose drops.

I think this is definitely something we need to try. It's the one thing we haven't tried so far. I'm a little scared about making his situation worse by forcing drops in his nose but at the same time, he is worsening and if it helps, then it will be worth it.

krazyaboutkatz wrote:

You can also try the pediatric nose drops called "Little Noses". I think you use one drop per nostril 2 times a day. I'm so sorry to hear that Tiger's still not doing well. I'll continue to keep him in my thoughts and prayers. I also hope that you'll sell your house soon.

Thanks, I will look into this one as well.

Thank you also to Medusa, MoonandBean, Moesha, Freedom and Abby's Mom and anyone (readers of this thread) who has made prayers for Tiger and for your continued support.

[Catty1]

Emeraldgreen - by all means, check out whatever you can find at health food stores and other local places.

But DO ask your vet if there are any nose drops or anything you can put in the vaporizer. I like the vaporizer idea because you said his lungs are "gargly", so if he can inhale safely medicated steam, that should help.

Also - try printing out all the vet medical stuff I found and faxing it over to your vet. I am NOT trying to play vet here, or doubt your vet at all - but you could ask which of those methods might be good.

It's written in your vet's language - "Vettinese".

HUGS!

[kb2yjx]

NO!!!!!!!!! Gold Seal is not a VINEGAR!!!!! Try to ask someone in your health food shop. It is also mentioned in the Anitra Frazier book!! This is great stuff, but not a vinegar(I googled it and came up with the vinegar!!).

[Medusa]

NO!!!!!!!!! Gold Seal is not a VINEGAR!!!!! Try to ask someone in your health food shop. It is also mentioned in the Anitra Frazier book!! This is great stuff, but not a vinegar(I googled it and came up with the vinegar!!).

Are you by any chance talking about golden seal, which is an herb?

[Emeraldgreen]

Are you by any chance talking about golden seal, which is an herb?

That's it! I found it online. I will look for it at my health food store.
Thanks kb2yjx and Medusa!

In the meantime, I picked up some Otrivin nasal drops. It doesn't say 'children's' on it but I spoke with the pharmacist and she told me that there is one that is half the strength (.005) and would be used for children so I got that one. I couldn't find the Little Noses one at a few places I checked.

My husband and I attempted to give Tiger a drop in each nostril and it didn't go very well. I got a drop in one nostril and then accidentally, a few in his mouth and one in his eye. Disaster. The dropper isn't very controlled and as soon as you turn it upside down, drops start coming out at a pretty fast rate. He freaked out and started running around and foaming at the mouth. I felt awful. But he calmed down and I cleaned him up and he did seem to be able to take bigger breaths but I can't be sure. I put him in the bathroom and steamed him. He settled right in and began grooming himself and lifted his head up towards the ceiling a few times as if he was really enjoying the effects of the steam. I'll definitely continue with the steaming.

I also spoke with the pharmacist and asked if they had a product called Mucinex (that's the one in the commercial with the cartoon mucous guys) but it's not in Canada yet, or at least not in B.C.
I did find a site that said that Robitussin DM is okay to give to pets at a dose of 0.5ml/lb and has the ingredients of Dextromethorphan and Guaifenesin in it. I will check with my vet about it and also ask them if they know of any other decongestants that are safe for cats. I will pass along the info you included in your post Candace. Thanks.

The best thing possible would be something I can steam him with or put in his food because the nasal drops really freaked all of us out. Tiger especially!

Anyway, that's the latest. I'll post an update in a few days.

[Catty1]

So far, so good. Hubby needs a saint award (so do you).

Maybe soaking a q-tip with the drops would make application easier? Even if it doesn't go right IN to the nostril, he would still inhale the med. Glad he is enjoying the steam! Tiger the Spa Kitty!

[jennielynn1970]

NO!!!!!!!!! Gold Seal is not a VINEGAR!!!!!

Isn't it called Goldenseal?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrastis_canadensis

[Randi]

I'm so sorry to hear Tiger is going through this - and you too. I hope the steam will continue to give him some releif, until you find the right thing for him.

Gentle kisses and positive thoughts to Tiger.

((((hugs))))

[Emeraldgreen]

I'm so sorry to hear Tiger is going through this - and you too. I hope the steam will continue to give him some releif, until you find the right thing for him.

Gentle kisses and positive thoughts to Tiger.

((((hugs))))

Thanks Randi.

Well, I can't believe it. I've come to a decision. Providing my vet will do it, I'm going to get Tiger in for one more surgery. Not the invasive surgery, like last time but the less invasive one where they go in through his nose with the rhinoscopic camera and debulk the tumor as much as they can. He's had this surgery two times before and he recovers within 2 days as if nothing happened. The only difference is that he can BREATHE!!! This poor cat has been put under anesthesia probably 7 times in the last year and I know that there are some people who may be thinking that is too much but the alternative at this point is euthanasia so I'm willing to risk it.
For the last 2 days I've had him on a holistic treatment that has belladonna and some other things in it that is supposed to clear his nasal passages but it isn't working that much. I thought it was at first but today he is alot worse. I've been steaming him which he does seem to like but he loves being warm (snuggles under the blankets, sleeps next to the heater, likes it when I blow dry him) so it may be that he is enjoying his own personal sauna, rather than it helping him to breathe.
I've sent a long email to my vet who just got back from Peru and is probably booked up to his eyeballs. He's probably not too keen on doing it again but my reasoning is that I want to give the Transfer Factor some more time and he is suffering right now so something has to change for him. I'm praying that he will do it.
My husband doesn't even know that I wrote the vet about this yet. I don't know what came over me, I was sitting with Tiger and feeling so badly for him and the next thing I knew, I was sitting at the computer writing my vet about another surgery! My husband is going to be mad but I will work it out.
It's just so hard because Tiger hasn't lost any weight, his coat looks great and he is still playful. He just has this blockage in his nose and it is cancer but for some reason, it isn't affecting him in other ways yet. I just can't put him down yet.
Please pray that the vet will do the surgery and that hubby won't kill me! LOL
Thanks guys!

[Catty1]

Lara - I thought 'just his lungs' were gargly. Is his nose breathing affected again?

Perhaps - just perhaps - it is not a tumour this time, but they can put some stuff up there to really clear things out?

Lara - I want to cry for Tiger and you - but you had him on the TF for three? months after the last invasive surgery.

I am just wanting to know why you think it will work this time...I am not trying to be negative, obviously this struck you as the right thing to do. Just trying to understand.

In addition to all the natural things you just tried, did you ask your vet about an inhalent that Tiger could use? Nose drops administered with a q-tip? Could a shot of "kitty dristan" be zapped up each nostril? Could this be tried to see if surgery is really necessary?

I've been running a fever today, so am not thinking clearly. But I am out of ideas.

I leave this with God.

[jennielynn1970]

Gosh.. do you think the tumor grew back that fast? Yikes!!!

I hope that the vet can suggest something that won't have to involve surgery. Maybe it's something else that affecting him?? One can be hopeful of that!

[Emeraldgreen]

Lara - I thought 'just his lungs' were gargly. Is his nose breathing affected again?

Perhaps - just perhaps - it is not a tumour this time, but they can put some stuff up there to really clear things out?

Lara - I want to cry for Tiger and you - but you had him on the TF for three? months after the last invasive surgery.

I am just wanting to know why you think it will work this time...I am not trying to be negative, obviously this struck you as the right thing to do. Just trying to understand.

In addition to all the natural things you just tried, did you ask your vet about an inhalent that Tiger could use? Nose drops administered with a q-tip? Could a shot of "kitty dristan" be zapped up each nostril? Could this be tried to see if surgery is really necessary?

I've been running a fever today, so am not thinking clearly. But I am out of ideas.

I leave this with God.

His nose has been stuffy all along, though in Denise's reading she felt it was clear which is maybe why you think that. And she may have felt that because he is able to get air through there but it's a struggle and he is worse now than when the reading was done. He has always been able to get air through his nose but each day it gets harder and he is now breathing so his cheeks puff out a bit above his teeth.
His chest area was making some sounds but the vet couldn't be sure if it was the rumbly sounds resonating from his nasal area. She thought this might be the case.
I thought that maybe Tiger had contracted the Herpes virus from my cat Stinky because she had been sick but that is something that resolves itself in two weeks generally when I put them on Lysine. He just gets progressively worse.
He has been on multiple Convenia injections which I believe is in the Clavamox family and it did nothing and he was on 10 days of Baytril and no change. I've tried nasal drops, (we did manage to get some in him finally and no change), a liquid expectorant and now this holistic product with the belladonna in it.
He's had the tumor removed 3 times and I've become very familiar with what he sounds like as it grows back. He had the surgery on St. Patrick's day and as of today it's been 2 months and 21 days since then.
The surgery he had before that, the tumor grew back in 2 months. So it's definitely reasonable to assume that it is happening again.
My reason for wanting to get the tumor removed again isn't to cure him, it's to provide some more time so that I can continue to treat him with the Transfer Factor
and he will be more comfortable while I do that. I haven't treated him with the Transfer Factor for 3 months. It's been 2 months or less and very sporadic at that because of the other treatments that he was receiving. It took awhile for it to arrive in the mail and then I waited a bit because he was still recovering from the major surgery and had the incision in his mouth that was healing etc..
I had to stop the Transfer Factor for the 10 days that I gave him the Baytril because he couldn't have dairy and the only way he'd take the T.F. was in cream cheese.
I'm 99% sure the tumor is back but my vet will be able to see if that's the case when he does the rhinoscopy. If the tumor isn't there, the camera will hopefully show my vet what is going on and at that point he will be able to prescribe something that will help him. This isn't the radical surgery where they went in through his palate. This is having a look in his nasal passages to see what's going on and if there is something there, he'll remove it. It takes half an hour and when he wakes up, he can breathe like a normal cat. It will last for 2 months and hopefully, in that 2 months he will respond to the Transfer Factor. If he doesn't and if he begins to suffer with the tumor again and nothing seems to help, I'll put him down.
I've tried everything and he needs something to change. He is happy and has an awesome appetite and scratches his cat tree and likes to hang out in his outdoor enclosure but he can't get enough air. Each day he moves a little slower because he just isn't getting the air in. You can hear him across the room. It's horrible. I can't imagine what this is like for him.
It may be that my vet won't be able to get him in until the end of the month and in the meantime I will continue with the holisitc treatment and the Transfer Factor and the steaming and hope that something will change. I'll pick up a bottle of the Otrivin pump spray and see if it has a better effect than the drops.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm so sorry to hear that he's getting worse. I sure hope that your vet will be able to help him in some way so that he'll be able to breathe easier. I'll continue to keep him in my thoughts and prayers. Please take care.

[jennielynn1970]

Oh gosh... you know, there are just some things that I wish I could take on for my kitties, and when they're sick, that's one of them. Poor guy having to suffer through this, and even though he has a great attitude, it's just so much on his little body.

I know the nose drops are not fun to administer. Calvin, in our shelter, was known for taking a few hands and fingers off in his day, and medicating him was always a dare... "Jenn.. you feeling brave? Wanna give Calvin his meds tonight??" My partner at the shelter knew I adored Calvin, and he'd actually let me pet him without attacking me. He even licked my hand one time, and the shelter owner said "OH JENNIE! Calvin loves you! He never does that with anyone! You should take him home to foster!" My partner at the shelter just snorted and said "He just wants to get a taste of his dinner before it's served." It made me laugh, made the shelter owner frustrated with us, but it really was the more likely cause for the "affection".

Anyway... it just took some maneuvering to get the drops in. Either hold kitty close to your body and hook your hand around the front so you can tilt his head up, and then lightly drop in one drop in each nostril; or if you can do it without him backing away and running, stand in front of him and tilt up his chin and put the drops in like that. Whatever gives you the most stability and lets Tiger know that you are trying to take special care of it.

I wish I could send pics of what Calvin in the shelter looked like 2 years ago, and what he looks like now. It's just an amazing difference, and I know they've basically been giving him nose drops every day or every other day of those 2 years. I think they had to switch nostril in between drops (mornings left side, eves right side, or something like that).

I really wish you good luck with this, and I hope that something will be able to give Tiger relief and for the tumor to stop growing back at such an unbelievable rate. Gosh. It's like he doesn't get a break!

Take care, and big hugs going out to you all and Tiger.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Prayers for my friend Tiger (it might help you to know that you are feeling worse than he is)