Should This Soldier Be Charged ?

[lizbud]

Marine From Indiana Charged In Iraqi Soldier's Death
Men Stood Watch At Security Post

POSTED: 6:16 am EDT August 15, 2007


INDIANAPOLIS -- A Marine reservist from Indiana has been charged with murdering an Iraqi army soldier in Fallujah, an attorney said Tuesday.

Lance Cpl. Delano Holmes, 21, of Indianapolis, is accused of stabbing Munther Jasem Muhammed Hassin to death as the two men stood watch at a security post on Dec. 31, 2006, Holmes' lawyer said.

The struggle began in the pre-dawn darkness after Hassin allegedly opened his cell phone then lit a cigarette at the post, attorney Steve Cook said.


The men were not supposed to display any illuminated objects because of the threat of sniper fire, and Holmes made repeated attempts to make Hassin extinguish the cigarette, Cook said.

"(Holmes) said 'No, no,' but the Iraqi soldier refused to put out the cigarette," Cook said. "Holmes knocked it out of his hands and they started wrestling on the ground."

Holmes thought Hassin was reaching for his loaded AK-47, so the Marine killed him with his bayonet then radioed for help, Cook said.

Holmes faces charges of unpremeditated murder and making a false official statement, and has been in the Camp Pendleton brig since Feb. 23, Cook said.

Cook said his client was acting in self defense.

"Lance Corporal Holmes is not guilty of the charges and he intends to prove that at trial," Cook said.

Holmes was arraigned July 31 but reserved his right not to enter a plea.

A message left with a Camp Pendleton Marine spokesman was not immediately returned Tuesday night.

The attorney said he waited until now to go public about his client's case because he was hoping the Marines "would do the right thing" and drop the charges.

Holmes' court-martial is set to begin Dec. 3., said Cook, a former federal prosecutor in San Diego.

Holmes enlisted in the Marine reserves in May 2004 and was on his first deployment in Iraq, Cook said. He is from the 1st Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, based out of Lansing, Mich.

[Lady's Human]

Being that all we have to go on is a news article, I have mixed feelings about this.

Mixed chains of command create confusion. We don't know what the standing orders and special orders were, we don't know the Iraqi's chain of command's orders were, there are too many unknowns.

It may be a situation where the Marines and Centcom feel obligated to try the Marine as a show of fairness to assuage the Iraqi military, and that little to nothing will come of the trial.

[lizbud]

That's sorta what I was thinking. I don't think the Iraqi chain of command
has anything to do with the jerk smoking & using his cell phone as they
were on guard duty. he could have gotten them both killed.

[Lady's Human]

The Iraqi Army is still learning. It may be that his chain of command didn't issue the same orders as the US chain of command did. Using a cell phone while on guard duty is pure idiocy, however. (Personally I wouldn't even allow troops to HAVE cell phones in that situation.)

[RICHARD]

Three on a match?

Here's where I get antsy about the whole thing-when anyone makes a false report that makes me uneasy about the whole incident. I think that maybe a report/call to HQ/Security head should have been made.




The story about three ciggies lit on a match being bad luck supposedly started in WWI. That gave a sniper ample time to zero in on the match light and get a kill.

[Lady's Human]

The problem with smoking on sentry/guard duty is simple. A cig shows up at about 1/4 mile with second gen soviet night vision equipment. You just can't take the risk.

The "False official statement" charge is something that goes without saying in a military trial. You are investigated, and if the statements the Marine made in his report to investigators are judged untrue by the tribunal, it's just one more thing to add to the list of convictions. Unlike a civilian trial, a court martial almost NEVER has one simple charge involved.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The man who should be charged is the one who sent this kid and a whole bunch of other kids into a senseless war...based on lies....in a country and a culture we don't understand...even if we ever could.

[Lady's Human]

All 540 of them, Sara?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'll settle for the three most egregious....Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld. You know...the top command?

[Lady's Human]

You know, I'm not going to get into this argument yet again. It's there, it's a fact, it has happened.

[RICHARD]

The man who should be charged is the one who sent this kid and a whole bunch of other kids into a senseless war...based on lies....in a country and a culture we don't understand...even if we ever could.

Is it too late to file charges against Kennedy and Johnson?

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's there, it's a fact, it has happened.

Yeah...Alfred E Newman...stuff happens...oh well...what me worry? Why try and fix it? Why try and hold anyone responsible?

Just let it go. And a young kid...sent to a country he doesn't understand...gets himself into a jam...let's hold HIM responsible.

And the big guys...it has happened. It's a fact. Oh well.

And I did not ask you...or anyone... to argue. Just stating my opinion. Still allowed?

[Lady's Human]

Yup, still allowed, just irritating when anything and everything gets turned into politics.

[RICHARD]

I'd be a little miffed if some yo-yo was acting stupid and putting my life on the line.


I guess there would be just as much outrage had that Marine been shot thru the head because someone wasn't following the basic rules of sentry duty?

[Lady's Human]

Had the Marine been shot in the head due to the negligence of the Iraqi,(highly unlikely, your average terrorist is a LOUSY shot), the Iraqi would have probably been shot on the spot, and there would have been no media coverage.

Another possible reason for the charges is that they may have had to due to whatever Status of Forces Agreement is in place with the Iraqi government.