Banned from grad for senior prank

[sparks19]

Okay. So will mommy and the media be there when he gets fired for violating company policy? Pranking? Will mommy set up a meeting to talk to his boss?

People need to accept the consequence of their actions. Missing graduation does not strike me as that serious of a consequence. He can put on the cap and gown and mommy can take his photo.

I deal with these people in the workplace all the time.

He sounds to me like a Paris Hilton in training...

LOL What?

So if the school called you up and said your child did this and that and this and that..... you wouldn't set up any kind of meeting with the teacher or principal to discuss the issues at hand? No one ever said the mother was trying to get the child out of punishment.... she was trying to see if there was a more appropriate punishment for the crime..... from what I can tell that is what makes your child YOUR child... YOU should deal with their issues and not just leave the teachers hanging out in the wind to deal with their issues and say "Oh well his problems are his own" Now that in no way suggests you should try to get your child out of any and all punishment but I definitely think a parent should be very active in their childs school life and punishment.

After 18 their mistakes are their own.... before 18 (mature or not) their mistakes are still your responsibility so you should do whatever you can to get to the bottom of their behaviour. Did the mother go about it the right way? Maybe she did maybe she didn't... we weren't at the meeting. But to say she was just trying to get him out of paying any consequences is a little presumptuous wouldn't you say?

[CagneyDog]

Actually it would do nothing to put a damper on his future. He will still get his diploma, probably mailed to him. He just can't go to the actual ceremony at the school and get it in public. He wasn't denied graduating, just going to the ceremony.

Oh! Sorry, I didn't catch that. Well that totally changes things, doesn't it!

[lizbud]

After 18 their mistakes are their own.... before 18 (mature or not) their mistakes are still your responsibility so you should do whatever you can to get to the bottom of their behaviour. Did the mother go about it the right way? Maybe she did maybe she didn't... we weren't at the meeting. But to say she was just trying to get him out of paying any consequences is a little presumptuous wouldn't you say?

Graduation ceramonies are not the place to get into why the child
acted the way they did, it's a time for them to show their maturity and
decent manners at a public function. The time for learning how to act
in public has long passed by the age of 17 or18.

And I think it's a pretty safe assumpion to think the mother would do
anything she could to "protect" her child from being denied participation
in the public ceremony.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

PM- You seem to be taking this thread pretty personally. I am not sure why, but, of course, you can. I really don't see the same "everyone keeps saying this...", or "I always see the belittling comments..." or any of the other over generalizing statments you are making. I have read the thread twice, in its entirety.

I shouldn't have to single anyone out- I'm not trying to point fingers, I am merely saying that if you look through many threads, especially in the dog house where there tend to be heated discussions, people quite consistently, if subtly, dismiss the opinions of younger people when they happen to be discordant with their own.

Frankly, I don't see "check back in 10 years.." in quite the inflammatory way that you do. I think most of us would agree our perspectives do change over time. Is that good, bad or evil, I don't know. I would not go so far as to call it a 'fact' that people mature over time, but, certainly, it isn't a fictional statment, either.

You are on one hand suggesting that people change in their lifetimes, but also saying that people NOW are more disrespectful then people in the past. It is true, life is full of change. Society changes. Why shouldn't people change? People are so ready to accept changes that they agree with (faster cars, computers, new conveniences) but expect people to remain the same. Why should teenagers today be the same as teenagers 40 or 60 years ago? And how were they really any better? Maybe kids of the 1940's were model citizens, I couldn't tell you. But, there were a lot of other problems in the world- worse ones, so far as I can tell (such as discrimination of minorities and women, world war, etc.). Expecting people to stay the same while the world changes is silly.

And the "check back in ten years" comment IS inflammatory. For one thing, it's something that will never come to be. No one is actually going to revisit this thread in 10 or 15 years. It's designed to point out how the person commenting has something that the other person does not- a certain age. And it's intended to point out the discrepancies between the older person's supposed knowledge and the younger one's. All in all, I think it's only a phrase used when the poster has no actual logical argument, or does not feel they have to answer to some one younger than themselves, and is designed to insult and humiliate.

I never know how to respond to someone that says something along the lines of, "well, all the adults I know are immature, and the kids have WAY more common sense then them", other than: change your friends. I see people from all walks of life, daily. I can say, without impunity, the adults tend to be WAY more mature than the younger set. Dunno. Maybe it is my perception?

Sure, most adults know how to go to work each day and get by, but that doesn't mean they have any common sense. Why would so many kids have all of these problems if their parents were mature role models? Most likely, they wouldn't. How could incidents like Columbine happen if parents (the mature ones, remember?) were more aware of their children's activities. I mean, who lets their teen have access to assault rifles? I am not blaming the parents, because clearly there were a lot of factors involved. But because adults are the guardians of young people means they should be more responsible, and in many cases I just don't see it.

I don't know what decade I grew up in. I was born in 1965. So, I guess it would be the 70s. I am not sure what history books I read, and what accounts they provided. Seeminly, I would have read the same ones you did. I would hardly lump the civil rights movement, any anti-war movement, and the anti-establishment groups in with an individual gluing two trays together in a school cafeteria. Just doesn't seem like these groups were fighting the same fight, you know what I mean?

Well, there were certainly times when people fought the "good fight" in the 60's. But there was also a widespread culture of distrust and disrespect towards authority that had more to do with coolness than it did social justice.

I guess it depends on how you define violent crime. I never saw Columbine like activity before Columbine. I never saw young defendants like I see now, routinely- in the news, in the jails, in the courts. I have never seen the child snatchings, the child murders, like we have seen in the last ten years.

Just because you haven't "seen" it, doesn't mean that it's fact. The media reports more than ever before, and we have access to it 24/7. It's unfortunate if more and more young people are becoming victims and criminals (though I would prefer to see actual statistics rather than anecdotal evidence), but maybe they are simply having to grow up faster. Young people have access to the same information we do, and good or bad, times change.

If, as you claim, the teachers don't even have the time to make sure the students are looking up the answers, what makes you think the teachers have the time to write the correct answers down for thier kids? Time is time. I still don't buy the theory, "the teacher takes the heat, the kids gets the pass". It isn't a theory that will take them very far IRL. As you say, you work with children and teens all the time. Certainly, you don't advocate the "well, if the teacher didn't do it for you, you are free to ignore that information".

I already said I do not advocate that- I think schools today DO get blamed for more then their fair share of things, though. And I think the current administration's education policy makes it very difficult for teachers to teach ideally.

Finally, it is that double standard. If teens have this 'right' to express their views (of course, I agree), then, adults enjoy that same right. I just don't see all this belittling stuff you are speaking of. Maybe I just read the wrong threads.

Of course everyone can express themselves. Maybe you don't see the belittling part because you think that older members have more to contribute than younger ones- and you agree with sentiments like "I know more than you, I am 20 years older, and one day you will agree with me because I am right."

[lizbud]

I graduated from parochial high school 24 years ago. (24 years ago June 10th, in fact. ) You could get in serious trouble really fast if you said or did anything disrespectful, not just to the teachers or principal, but to the librarian, office staff, bus drivers, custodians, basically any adult. Sometimes I wonder how I would get through high school if I were a student now. My sister-in-law teaches middle school and from the stories she tells I think things are just a lot different for kids. The Internet, media, the role of families and the function of a family in a child's life, things have just changed a lot. It seems to me that life just moves faster now than it did when I was in high school in the early '80s. I don't know if that is really possible, but it sure seems that way to me.

Edited to ask: Could it be that the expectations placed on kids are just different? Or, were my parents just tougher on discipline than the parents of today? I don't know. I can tell you I was a kid who toed the line and never took a risk. Even now, at 40, I'm risk-averse. Back then I wouldn't have dared to glue the trays together out of fear of the consequences.

You make some excellent points here. I do believe less is expected from
kids today as opposed to say, 25 years ago.

[caseysmom]

I disagree lizbud. My kids homework and schoolwork is leaps and bounds more than I ever had, and we both attended/attend public schools.

My daughter is a freshman taking algebra 2, I never got that far, not even close. Believe me they have to do a lot more in school than I ever did to get by.

[mugsy]

The kid needs to shut up and deal with the consequences. He did wrong, plain and simple. They didn't press charges. He missing walking with his class...he will live.

As far as school work goes...while they are moving faster for sure, but, it's very watered down...the bar is far lower. When I graduated in 1980, I graduated with a 93% average and it was a middle of the road "B+", now it's a solid "A". 75% was the lowest passing grade and for some teachers now, it's 60%...and still almost 1/2 the kids flunk because they are flat out too lazy to do the work...and they will tell you that proudly. I'm just sick to death of the disrespect and the "I am all important" attitudes that prevail in today's schools. Almost to the point of throwing in the towel and telling someone else to deal with them. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and most of the kids I see everyday, but, the others make me wonder...

[caseysmom]

The work my daughter does doesn't seem watered down to me, in fact it makes me feel plain stupid

[sparks19]

And I think it's a pretty safe assumpion to think the mother would do
anything she could to "protect" her child from being denied participation
in the public ceremony.

But to assume that she just wants him out of any punishment at all just because she is trying to get him back into graduation and pay his price in other ways is just... well... silly to me.

Tell me that as a mother you would just pass up the opportunity to see your son walk in graduation without at least TRYING to get him a different punishment like paying the cost and volunteering in the cafeteria cleaning all the trays etc etc. I do NOT in any way, shape or form think that makes her a bad mother at all nor do I think that is allowing her child to get away with his crime without punishment. Trying to get her son back into graduation does not mean she doesn't want him to pay the consequences.... nor does it mean that she will run to his rescue if he screws up in "the real world" whatever that is.

and it is never too late to be a parent My father STILL tries to tell me what is and isn't good for me to eat and tell me how I should spend my money etc etc (even though this man survives on sausages and baloney sandwiches lol I don't think he is in any position to tell me how to eat haha) Parents are parents whether you are 2 or 20 or 90.

[Lady's Human]

Once the school handed out the punishment, I would tell the teenager to suck it up, be glad that's all it is, and deal with it, which is pretty much what my parents would have told me.

[lizbud]

I disagree lizbud. My kids homework and schoolwork is leaps and bounds more than I ever had, and we both attended/attend public schools.

My daughter is a freshman taking algebra 2, I never got that far, not even close. Believe me they have to do a lot more in school than I ever did to get by.

Oh, I wasn't talking educational development, I mean emotional growth.
personal interaction with other people, that sort of thing.

[caseysmom]

Oh, I wasn't talking educational development, I mean emotional growth.
personal interaction with other people, that sort of thing.

I know...don't get me wrong I want to strangle one of mine 90 percent of the time but my other daughter is a complete hard working respectful kid, it just depends and they have the same parent so don't blame it on me

[sparks19]

I know...don't get me wrong I want to strangle one of mine 90 percent of the time but my other daughter is a complete hard working respectful kid, it just depends and they have the same parent so don't blame it on me

it is true.... sometimes parenting just is NOT enough. YOu can drill it into their brains and teach them and teach them but eventually they will develop their own personalities and if what you taught doesn't fit in with that.... they just go their own way. Like in your case..... they have two totally different personalities so they will react to your teachings in a completely different way. and some kids will just rebel no matter what you teach them. Some of them just need the fear of God to straighten them out lol

[buttercup132]

Pembroke_Corgi, I completley agree with what you have said and that's how I feel. It just always comes out wrong when I say it.

I hate when people say "back when I was young..". Were not back when you were young so stop trying to make it that way. Alot of you are also saying how you did stupid things when you were younger so why are you bashing the teenagers of now that do stupid things?

And I really don't think your generations had that much more respect for authorities.I have parents who were in that generation too and people in my family who taught in some of your generations so I've herd my share of stories about how bad some kids were. Obviously some had respect but they do now too.

[lizbud]

Why should teenagers today be the same as teenagers 40 or 60 years ago? And how were they really any better? Maybe kids of the 1940's were model citizens, I couldn't tell you. But, there were a lot of other problems in the world- worse ones, so far as I can tell (such as discrimination of minorities and women, world war, etc.). Expecting people to stay the same while the world changes is silly.

Of course everyone can express themselves. Maybe you don't see the belittling part because you think that older members have more to contribute than younger ones- and you agree with sentiments like "I know more than you, I am 20 years older, and one day you will agree with me because I am right."

Teenagers today are no are different than they ever were. They the same
because they are at the same stage of development mentally & phsically.
Teenagers and adults will never act or think the same way about anything.
Well, very seldom) Their brains are at different levels of development. In
medical studies they call the" teenage brain" a work in progress. No
insult intended here, that's just the way it is.


http://www.edutopia.org/inside-teenage-brain


or http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Teachers/brain.html