I can't say I'm Sorry

[sparks19]

Wow this thread has become a big argument. Yes I said SEALS only but what about the deer? What about the bunnies? What about all the other animals who stay together family like. Yes some animals abandon their babies but duh so do people. You are crazy lady...

Well I sincerely hope you have never swatted a fly or stepped on an ant in your lifetime. if you are going to start calling someone with a differing opinion from yours "crazy" you better be squeaky clean in your quest for no killing. Nothing she said was crazy.... you just don't like her opinion. doesn't make her crazy.

But..... to wish near death for the people that are just doing their jobs makes you no better than the hunters in which you are condemning. Sure no one said "death" straight out..... but when you are happy they are stuck out in the ice and likely will run out of food if they don't freeze to death first..... to me that is saying you are happy that they might die. These people are just trying to make a living. Does it make what they are doing right? NO.... but rest assured if it came down to feeding my family or starving my children to death because I can no longer afford food.... you bet your arse I will be out there doing what I can to make ends meet. It is easy to sit back and say how wrong it is to do it to make ends meet when we are in a place that has plenty of work available.... to us..... a crappy job is McDonalds.

[angelbow20]

Well I sincerely hope you have never swatted a fly or stepped on an ant in your lifetime. if you are going to start calling someone with a differing opinion from yours "crazy" you better be squeaky clean in your quest for no killing. Nothing she said was crazy.... you just don't like her opinion. doesn't make her crazy.

But..... to wish near death for the people that are just doing their jobs makes you no better than the hunters in which you are condemning. Sure no one said "death" straight out..... but when you are happy they are stuck out in the ice and likely will run out of food if they don't freeze to death first..... to me that is saying you are happy that they might die. These people are just trying to make a living. Does it make what they are doing right? NO.... but rest assured if it came down to feeding my family or starving my children to death because I can no longer afford food.... you bet your arse I will be out there doing what I can to make ends meet. It is easy to sit back and say how wrong it is to do it to make ends meet when we are in a place that has plenty of work available.... to us..... a crappy job is McDonalds.

I agree with you 100 percent!

[Argranade]

You obviously have never been Wild Turkey hunting...

I don't belive hunting any living thing should be sporty or fun,

That's like saying '' You obviously have never been dog hunting''

Turkeys & Dogs can both feel pain in the same way, there should be no difference.

Just to make things clear I'm not saying your going to shoot dogs I'm just giving an exsample.

I'm only up for hunting if you need to use the animals for food, I mean the HOLE animal .. don't just chop off it's head, skin the fur and leave the rest of the carcass. Sometimes in casses animals do over populate but that's nature and I would rather leave it be but of course that's not going to happen with humans around.

[sparks19]

I don't belive hunting any living thing should be sporty or fun,

That's like saying '' You obviously have never been dog hunting''

Turkeys & Dogs can both feel pain in the same way, there should be no difference.

Just to make things clear I'm not saying your going to shoot dogs I'm just giving an exsample.

I'm only up for hunting if you need to use the animals for food, I mean the HOLE animal .. don't just chop off it's head, skin the fur and leave the rest of the carcass. Sometimes in casses animals do over populate but that's nature and I would rather leave it be but of course that's not going to happen with humans around.

he meant that it was not just as easy as firing your weapon blindly into the forest as some people believe hunting is. Turkey hunting actually requires hours of work.

But just think..... some of those people that hunt are probably buying less store bought meat from animals that come from slaughterhouses etc... etc. I have heard people say that if you are going to eat meat you should eat free range because they are treated more humanely.... well... what is more free range than that

[lizbud]

Wow this thread has become a big argument. Yes I said SEALS only but what about the deer? What about the bunnies? What about all the other animals who stay together family like. Yes some animals abandon their babies but duh so do people. You are crazy lady...

This thread is soooo NOT an argument. Your calling people names just might turn it into one. Please don't do that.

This is, I hope, not a debate, not an argument, but an adult discussion of
seals & the seal cull. Thanks.

[wombat2u2004]

But just think..... some of those people that hunt are probably buying less store bought meat from animals that come from slaughterhouses etc... etc. I have heard people say that if you are going to eat meat you should eat free range because they are treated more humanely.... well... what is more free range than that

SOME of those people ????? So what you are saying is that the others are just doing it for fun....???? Right ????
And exactly HOW could someone hunting something in the wild be more humane than those who kill abbatoir slaughtered animals ???? They have laws in place exactly how animals are killed in slaughterhouses, and I know for a fact that it is VERY humane. As for hunting....humane ??? Nope, not buying into that one.....I've seen the results of too many hunts in my life, a wounded animal is sometimes tracked for hours and hours, trying to escape with half of it's gut hanging out, and even sometimes the hunters lose the animal, or simply just couldn't be bothered to put in the time necessary to finish the hunt. Some of these animals take weeks to die......I have seen it....many times. If you think for one moment that hunters are humane, then you should have another think coming. How many hunters do you know who are such fantastic shots that we have a "one shot, instantaneous kill" situation. NOT very many.

As for jobs required by the people of Newfoundland, which is their reason to continue these hunts.....well if my memory serves me right....just how humane were the coal pits of Cape Breton ???? Where children no more than 12 years old worked their lives away in the coal mines ???? Only to die of exhaustion or coughing their blood filled lungs up, to eke out a living, so that they could actually have something to eat ??? What for ??? So that someone could get rich !!!! Someone who didn't give a damn about those kids lives. Tragic ???? You betcha !!!! So why did they stop that ???? If responsible people hadn't stepped in at the time....I'll bet my butt that that practice would still be considered by those who care nothing about making money ANY way they can. And so it is the same now with the seal pups.....the dollars are involved, it's as simple as that.

Anyway....who are we to play God ???? To say who or what dies, or who and what lives ???
Wom

[Marigold2]

I don't think I have ever seen a homeless person hunt. Is that a big problem in the city, seeing homeless people with rifles shooting stray dogs, cats, rats, birds for food? They are usually in the city panhandling or going to a food bank. I grew up in the country and I have never met anyone who had to hunt for food. They wanted to but didn't need to meat to live. Plant a veggie garden, can some veggies for God's sake.
These seal hunters don't give a damn how those seals die. They are beating them to death while these animals are screaming and crying in pain. They don't care if that baby dies the first blow or the 5 or 10th. They are there for the money. It doesn't matter how the seal dies, just that they make their quoto. There are plenty of other ways to make a living them beating a baby to death. And if they are too stupid to figure that out do us a favor and don't have kids.
I have no respect for hunters or murderes as I call them. Nor would I help one who is starving or bleeding to death. I have no problem walking away from a dying hunter. Do I put an animals life in front of a person? Yes I would. If there was a rapist or drug dealer, child molester in a burning building and a pet hamster and I only had time to get one out, hey I'm picking the hamster. That sweet innocent creature never harmed anyone, the person did. A worthless, evil, mean person's life is not worth anything.
Does the mother dog or mommy cat love her babies any less, often they love their babies more then humans. They don't stab, burn, murder, abuse, abandon, molest their kids. We as humans do hundreds of times a day.
Oh and ants and fleas are insects not animals. They don't have the same nerve receptors so I have no problem sleeping if I step on an ant. Dead ant, dead ant, dead ant, deat ant dead ant.....lalalalalla

[sparks19]

SOME of those people ????? So what you are saying is that the others are just doing it for fun....???? Right ????
And exactly HOW could someone hunting something in the wild be more humane than those who kill abbatoir slaughtered animals ???? They have laws in place exactly how animals are killed in slaughterhouses, and I know for a fact that it is VERY humane. As for hunting....humane ??? Nope, not buying into that one.....I've seen the results of too many hunts in my life, a wounded animal is sometimes tracked for hours and hours, trying to escape with half of it's gut hanging out, and even sometimes the hunters lose the animal, or simply just couldn't be bothered to put in the time necessary to finish the hunt. Some of these animals take weeks to die......I have seen it....many times. If you think for one moment that hunters are humane, then you should have another think coming. How many hunters do you know who are such fantastic shots that we have a "one shot, instantaneous kill" situation. NOT very many.

As for jobs required by the people of Newfoundland, which is their reason to continue these hunts.....well if my memory serves me right....just how humane were the coal pits of Cape Breton ???? Where children no more than 12 years old worked their lives away in the coal mines ???? Only to die of exhaustion or coughing their blood filled lungs up, to eke out a living, so that they could actually have something to eat ??? What for ??? So that someone could get rich !!!! Someone who didn't give a damn about those kids lives. Tragic ???? You betcha !!!! So why did they stop that ???? If responsible people hadn't stepped in at the time....I'll bet my butt that that practice would still be considered by those who care nothing about making money ANY way they can. And so it is the same now with the seal pups.....the dollars are involved, it's as simple as that.

Anyway....who are we to play God ???? To say who or what dies, or who and what lives ???
Wom

Well I can't say all of the hunters because then you would be saying "well how could you know if all hunters do that" it's a lose lose situation

and around here farm raised animals are NOT always treated humanely.... why do you think there is a big bruhaha about taking free range meat over "regular" meat. Because they live more humane lives.... they are killed FAR more humanely. In many cases here the cows that are slaughtered are killed very inhumanely. It has even gone so far in some places to where the cows are not put to death before the slaughter starts.....

I guess I am just lucky to be surrounded by responsible hunters. I have never known any of our friends to wound and animal and not put it out of it's misery and just let it go. No one I know does that.... is that to say it doesn't happen? of course not.

They put a stop to Cape Breton because they were 12 year old kids.... there are labour laws. A bunch of adults going out to do a job to support their families is not NEARLY in the same group as forcing children to work in mines and die. that's like comparing apples to french fries. Again I say.... if it came down to my family starving to death or clubbing seals to put food on my table.... I would pick feeding my starving children over the seals. In that case I would never EVER put an animals life before my families life.

Marigold.... you may not see many homeless people out hunting.... but MANY of those homeless people are fed from the meat that hunters get. Many many hunters donate their "extra" meat to charities that distribute that meat to homeless shelters and other charities.

but you say you wouldn't help someone who was a hunter if they were dying.... by all means that is your choice.... but I don't know many hunters around here that would not help an animal that was suffering. You think they are just cold blooded killers who just go out and shoot shoot shoot.... but I know of more than one who has come across an animal that was injured or sick and taken it somewhere to get it help. if the animal was in terrible condition then they would put it out of its misery.

So it's ok to kill insects.... they aren't animals so they don't deserve the same respect? I don't get that. how can you be for preserving one kind of life and not another? They don't have the same nerve receptors? so because they don't feel the same kind of pain it's ok? That confuses me.... you say all life is equal... unless you are an insect and then you don't matter.

But the bottom line is..... if I had to do the seal hunt to provide for my family I would a million times over. Like I said... it is easy to say how wrong it is when the worst job we can think of here is working at McDonalds or working in a field picking strawberries. but I bet if you had to feed your family you would do whatever you had to to do that. newfoundland isn't exactly job central.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Well I can't say all of the hunters because then you would be saying "well how could you know if all hunters do that" it's a lose lose situation

and around here farm raised animals are NOT always treated humanely.... why do you think there is a big bruhaha about taking free range meat over "regular" meat. Because they live more humane lives.... they are killed FAR more humanely. In many cases here the cows that are slaughtered are killed very inhumanely. It has even gone so far in some places to where the cows are not put to death before the slaughter starts.....

I guess I am just lucky to be surrounded by responsible hunters. I have never known any of our friends to wound and animal and not put it out of it's misery and just let it go. No one I know does that.... is that to say it doesn't happen? of course not.

They put a stop to Cape Breton because they were 12 year old kids.... there are labour laws. A bunch of adults going out to do a job to support their families is not NEARLY in the same group as forcing children to work in mines and die. that's like comparing apples to french fries. Again I say.... if it came down to my family starving to death or clubbing seals to put food on my table.... I would pick feeding my starving children over the seals. In that case I would never EVER put an animals life before my families life.

Marigold.... you may not see many homeless people out hunting.... but MANY of those homeless people are fed from the meat that hunters get. Many many hunters donate their "extra" meat to charities that distribute that meat to homeless shelters and other charities.

but you say you wouldn't help someone who was a hunter if they were dying.... by all means that is your choice.... but I don't know many hunters around here that would not help an animal that was suffering. You think they are just cold blooded killers who just go out and shoot shoot shoot.... but I know of more than one who has come across an animal that was injured or sick and taken it somewhere to get it help. if the animal was in terrible condition then they would put it out of its misery.

So it's ok to kill insects.... they aren't animals so they don't deserve the same respect? I don't get that. how can you be for preserving one kind of life and not another? They don't have the same nerve receptors? so because they don't feel the same kind of pain it's ok? That confuses me.... you say all life is equal... unless you are an insect and then you don't matter.

But the bottom line is..... if I had to do the seal hunt to provide for my family I would a million times over. Like I said... it is easy to say how wrong it is when the worst job we can think of here is working at McDonalds or working in a field picking strawberries. but I bet if you had to feed your family you would do whatever you had to to do that. newfoundland isn't exactly job central.

Who said anything about insects? Sorry but, I didn't see anyone post that they killed bugs on their free time but they abhor any other kind of killing. There's a big difference between accidentally and unknowingly stepping on an ant and taking a rifle and blowing the head off of a turkey. Something to do with intention maybe?

And anyway, aren't you the one who thinks we all have choices, and that if people are poor, it is their own fault? If everyone has such a choice, then there they shouldn't have to ever choose to take such an awful job- if they do, it's their fault, right? Because people who work for their money deserve their money more...we don't want poor people stealing from us decent hard working people.

I agree that cows and other animals raised for slaugther lead worse lives than those in the wild- but I also don't agree with hunting. But, I also don't eat meat of any kind. Since you find slaughterhouse practices so horrible, do you likewise abstain from non "free range" meat?

[RICHARD]

Not a huge fan of seal clubbing or any kind of clubbing in general.

I hate the two drink minimum rules.


-----------

I like these threads because they really show the passion of the posters.

A few little observations..

Does anyone have any pics of Beatles or Bardot on the ice trying to stop the hunt?

Here in Cah lee fuh nee ah the "stars" come out for the Surfrider Foundation to do the beach clean-ups. While they just have to drive up the street or walk out their back door to participate.

Then you have the others who build and adopt...Ah, I'll give them some credit...Not a huge fan of the camera crews, press releases and one hour TV specials, tho. That's a little more self-serving than I can stomach.

A few bucks and a PSA should just about cover it.

------------

Everyone (except Jessica Simpson- she wants chicken free tuna) wants dolphin free tuna, free range animals and man-made leather.

We can't have everything.
-------------

As brutal as seal culling is, we always side with the animals-and rightly so.
Check out the lists of animals that are disappearing from the planet.

Why?

Because we are not responsible for caring for them in the first place.

We do not take into consideration that there are times that hunts and culling
are ways to promote that species longevity.

Illnesses, overpopulatiion and construction are to blame for a lot of the disappearing creatures- so are haphazard hunting practices.

Things could be worse.

What happens to the seals if we do not put limits on hunts?

-----------

The last thing we don't take into consideration is the people who actually do the hunting. I really don't see anyone doing it out of sheer meanness. I venture to guess that it's the same reason that drives most of us to earn money.

It's probably not a 'lifestyle' of 'sport'. IT's a way to get a few bucks to feed a family. Because we have more options for employment in the areas we live in, most of us will never have to go club baby mammals to earn a buck.

I dare say most of us would rather work in a nice AC office, Hot coffee in the break room and a nice tofu burger and hummus - delivered to our desk.....

Trudging around in a parka, boots in freezing cold weather, beating the crap outta seals ain't my cup of tea.

What about killing animals for their horns, gall bladders and penises- I've seen the umbrella holders made out of elephant feet and the monkeypaw ashtrays.

Those are the AHs that should be clubbed.


Again, I don't really care for clubbing baby seals. But I do see why there is an industry behind it.

I feel a little better knowing that these hunts are controlled and observed by the gov't.

---------------

One more thing to ponder.

The culling of seals on the ecosystem.
Seals eat fish, A lot of seals eat a lot of fish. Less fish = less seals.

Two or more species gone.

Think global, act loco!

[Puckstop31]

I don't belive hunting any living thing should be sporty or fun,

That's like saying '' You obviously have never been dog hunting''

No it's not... Hunting dogs would be FAR less challenging. A Turkey hunt is truely a challenge. I have probably been out 12-13 times in my life and have had 4 successes.

Your comparison does not work here...

Turkeys & Dogs can both feel pain in the same way, there should be no difference.

I know that. But when a turkey hunt is successful, I promise your the turkey feels no pain. Why? Because you have to call them in very close and at that very short range it is a instant kill.

If pain of the animal is your problem, turkey hunting should not be a problem for you.

I'm only up for hunting if you need to use the animals for food, I mean the HOLE animal .. don't just chop off it's head, skin the fur and leave the rest of the carcass. Sometimes in casses animals do over populate but that's nature and I would rather leave it be but of course that's not going to happen with humans around.

I never have and never will keep a animal I kill to turn into a trophey. I only hunt what I intend to eat or donate.

And you know what? I bet I love and respect nature more than most. Why? I am very responsible about my hunting, report morons who are not and I understand the gift that nature is. I am more at home in the woods that I ever will be in the concrete jungle.

[Puckstop31]

Anyway....who are we to play God ???? To say who or what dies, or who and what lives ???
Wom

God has given us dominion over His animal creation. I know this is going to piss most of you off, but it is what it is. That does not mean we should just blindly take advantage of it. It is a gift that should be responsibly managed and used.

[Puckstop31]

I don't think I have ever seen a homeless person hunt. Is that a big problem in the city, seeing homeless people with rifles shooting stray dogs, cats, rats, birds for food? They are usually in the city panhandling or going to a food bank. I grew up in the country and I have never met anyone who had to hunt for food. They wanted to but didn't need to meat to live. Plant a veggie garden, can some veggies for God's sake.
These seal hunters don't give a damn how those seals die. They are beating them to death while these animals are screaming and crying in pain. They don't care if that baby dies the first blow or the 5 or 10th. They are there for the money. It doesn't matter how the seal dies, just that they make their quoto. There are plenty of other ways to make a living them beating a baby to death. And if they are too stupid to figure that out do us a favor and don't have kids.
I have no respect for hunters or murderes as I call them. Nor would I help one who is starving or bleeding to death. I have no problem walking away from a dying hunter. Do I put an animals life in front of a person? Yes I would. If there was a rapist or drug dealer, child molester in a burning building and a pet hamster and I only had time to get one out, hey I'm picking the hamster. That sweet innocent creature never harmed anyone, the person did. A worthless, evil, mean person's life is not worth anything.
Does the mother dog or mommy cat love her babies any less, often they love their babies more then humans. They don't stab, burn, murder, abuse, abandon, molest their kids. We as humans do hundreds of times a day.
Oh and ants and fleas are insects not animals. They don't have the same nerve receptors so I have no problem sleeping if I step on an ant. Dead ant, dead ant, dead ant, deat ant dead ant.....lalalalalla

I love it... I love the statement "ants and fleas are insects, not animals". Where in your brain does THAT justification come up? To make you feel better I suppose?

What if the choice was between a Human child and that hamster?

Seek help m'am. I'd hate for you to end up in jail if you really did make a choice like that someday.

[sparks19]

Who said anything about insects? Sorry but, I didn't see anyone post that they killed bugs on their free time but they abhor any other kind of killing. There's a big difference between accidentally and unknowingly stepping on an ant and taking a rifle and blowing the head off of a turkey. Something to do with intention maybe?

And anyway, aren't you the one who thinks we all have choices, and that if people are poor, it is their own fault? If everyone has such a choice, then there they shouldn't have to ever choose to take such an awful job- if they do, it's their fault, right? Because people who work for their money deserve their money more...we don't want poor people stealing from us decent hard working people.

I agree that cows and other animals raised for slaugther lead worse lives than those in the wild- but I also don't agree with hunting. But, I also don't eat meat of any kind. Since you find slaughterhouse practices so horrible, do you likewise abstain from non "free range" meat?

In fact I DO think everyone has a choice.... and I will never condemn anyone for working for a living when so many would just say forget it and go onto welfare for the rest of their lives when there IS a job available.... These people are working for a living and they are being thrown to the lions saying they deserve to get stuck out in the ice and die because they do their JOB. My job is not my life ... I do it to make a living. And these people DO deserve their money because they are working for it. So I'm not sure what your point is there. This just shows that no one TRULY has to be on welfare.... they just might have to do a job they don't particularly like... but around here the terrible jobs are working at McDonalds.... shows what a spoiled society we live in. I applaude these families for doing what they can and not just giving up and going on welfare.

Nope, I eat meat that I get from the grocery store..... I am just pointing out what others who protest "store bought meat" say. Many that I know say free range meat is better because they are treated better throughout their life time and when they are taken to slaughter..... I just buy whatever meat is available. I personally don't sit there and think about the lifestyle my steak lead.... I just eat it.

As for the bugs..... read back through the posts.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I don't think I have ever seen a homeless person hunt.

I don't think you are allowed to hunt them....