Decrating

[carrie]

I am very sorry you took it that way.

I simply do not see the need to crate dogs. A dog raised with correct crate training will accept it as it's place. My opinion is that there are better ways of creating happy secure dogs that behave in an appropriate manner when left in the house on their own.

Your opinion is different. C'est la vie!

I am happy to acknowledge that I learn at least one thing every single day and my methods have changed hugely through the years. I hope that this continues and dread the day that I think I know it all.

As for crates, I don't like them and I never will. You do and your dogs have been conditioned to accept it. That's your choice.

I hope you stay around and don't let me put you off this board, it is a great place and you will find many that share your opinions on crates.

[NICHOLLE1978]

Yes, there is a difference between giving advice and calling people cruel and ignorant for crate training their pets. Professionals help and respond professional in manner. They don't treat people like they should not own pets because they dont understand what they are doing. What about people who are not home all of the time to take care of a chewing puppy. What if the puppy chews on electrical cords while you are not home and something bad happens? How would you feel? leave him or her in the bathroom? is that the same as crating? How would you feel if you came home to a hurt family member because of something like this? Not too good right? Crating is protecting your pet. Not stupidity or cruelty it is love and protection. We all as pet owners have worried about our pets while away. Crate training eliminates the worries. And no, not everyone leaves their pets in crates for unreasonable hours at a time as she has said. There is much more to crate training than she has stated. Ask her, as a professional she will definatly be able to tell you.

[carrie]

I simply would not have a puppy or new dog if I was not in a position to put in the time and attention needed.

I did not call you cruel - I said that in my opinion the practice is not necessary and it is the practice, not the people, that I view as cruel.

You don't - that's fine. There are many here who use this method and are happy with it. I'm not among them but I still have the right to state my opinion, as do you. I am in no way attacking you and hope you don't feel the need to defend yourself on such a personal level.

[NICHOLLE1978]

I do not wish to defend myself. I am simply stating before you judge a persons position and how much time they have, think about what you say. Yes I work but that does not mean I should not have the opportunity to enjoy the ones I love the most, my animals. I have no problem with you stating your opinion. It is when you say

"I simply would not have a puppy or new dog if I was not in a position to put in the time and attention needed."

I love my pets and would do anything for them even if I do work and I leave them in a crate for their protection. Every good owner deserves that priviledge even if they are not at home all of the time.

[carrie]

I agree.

You did ask what I would do and I gave you an honest answer. Because it is not the one you want to hear does not mean that I am having a pop at you. It is an honest answer to your question, nothing more.

I am happy to agree to disagree on crates. I don't want bad feeling between us and we have both stated our opinions. Let's leave it at that and move on.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by NICHOLLE1978
Yes, there is a difference between giving advice and calling people cruel and ignorant for crate training their pets. Professionals help and respond professional in manner. They don't treat people like they should not own pets because they dont understand what they are doing. What about people who are not home all of the time to take care of a chewing puppy. What if the puppy chews on electrical cords while you are not home and something bad happens? How would you feel? leave him or her in the bathroom? is that the same as crating? How would you feel if you came home to a hurt family member because of something like this? Not too good right? Crating is protecting your pet. Not stupidity or cruelty it is love and protection. We all as pet owners have worried about our pets while away. Crate training eliminates the worries. And no, not everyone leaves their pets in crates for unreasonable hours at a time as she has said. There is much more to crate training than she has stated. Ask her, as a professional she will definatly be able to tell you.

Nicholle,
On defense of Carrie (not that I really think she needs defending), I think you were the first to mention the words Cruel and Ignorant. I reread this thread three times looking for where cruelity and ignorance came into the conversation and I'm sorry to tell you that you brought it up, not Carrie.

Hbrinka, the originator of the post, did not have a problem with Carrie's response then WHY should you. If you don't agree with her position then just don't take her advice. Carrie is a professional!!! That does not make her perfect and it certainly doesn't qualify her as God but then it doesn't mean you can't determine what works for you and your dog if you don't like her advice. Let's get real. Are you on the defensive perhaps because you feel some guilt for crate training?

In a pack, a members normal environment does not have crates or cages or whatever you choose to call them. They have dens. A animal is never locked into the den because someone isn't there to look after them. Carrie was correct in her analysis that we (humans) find crates comforting because it helps us to keep our pets in line while we can not pay them the attention they need during the early learning period.

Don't get me wrong, I am a avid fan of crate training. It has helped to alleviate many stressful situations between me and my dogs over the years. That being said though, my pups are out of cage as soon as possible and NEVER in a crate when I am at home. That includes at night. If I choose not to have my 65 and 75 pound Goldens in bed with me at night, then a simple OFF command should be sufficient.

Hbrinka asked for help. Carrie offered her advice and her opinion on crating. You are the one who got defensive. If you didn't like Carrie's opinion you should of taken it with a grain of salt and moved on (by keeping your objections to yourself). You want her to be silent but you were not able to do that yourself!

DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE TO OFFER HBRINKA IN GETTING HER DOG OUT OF THE CRATE? That is really what this post was started for!

[NICHOLLE1978]

I am happy to hear carries opinion. And I think she is incredible knowledgeable. I have read alot of her other responses and she knows what she is talking about in some cases. I am not mad. But good lord it does sound like Dixieland Dancer is a little upset. Oh well!!! Thank you for your response carrie did not mean to jump on you. And Dixieland Dancer please dont get so worked up. Sorry

Nicholle

[carrie]

Phew! Glad that is sorted!

I have to say that was not Dixieland Dancer upset - she has been a bit upset with me at times and you don't know the half of it!!

She is a the greatest supporter of "sensible" crate training you could find. If anyone feels they HAVE to crate train, then please do it Dixie's way.
I still don't agree with the principles behind Dixie's crate training.

You got Dixie "soft"!

She knows her dogs and has answers where I have none. (Candy - this is starting to look like a two way fan club!)

I have, over time and communication, built a huge respect for Dixie. She has a dog "savvy" and is a mine of information and experience. She also has the "human touch" which I am well aware that I lack, especially over the net!
Believe me, she was not upset, while she will fight her corner she is the most capable person I know to bridge the animal/human gap and is always honest and direct.
That was not an "upset" post from Dixie - if it was she would of said, "I am upset...."

Fan club over, we have been here for some time and know each other from the site and emails - you are just the sort of person that will fit right in here so please stay.






(Candy...... I'm not God??? !
Really??
That's a real shock!)

[Dixieland Dancer]

Carrie, it IS getting scary! I think you are starting to know me just a "Little" better than my better half. And he scares me sometimes when he knows what I'm going to do before I know what I'm going to do! LOL

I wasn't upset when I posted. I was just confused that this thread took such a strange change from how it started. I do believe in crate training and encourage anyone who feels comfortable with the method to employ it "the right way". For those who don't like the crate training method "then to each their own!"

My only objection to crate training is improper use. To many people use the crate as a place to discipline their dogs when they don't know what else to do. Crates are NOT to be used in any form of discipline. There are tooooooo many people crate training and NOT doing it "the right way." A crate does not take the place of a Alpha leader who can teach a dog through other methods.

[Pam]

We used a crate very successfully to housetrain Bella and had used crates before with our other dogs. Even when we got Bella the breeder said "I hope you are planning to use a crate for housetraining."

Bella however never took to it as her home or den. When she saw me getting ready to leave for work in the morning she would walk over to it and get inside and I would simply close the door. When we were all home in the evenings I never saw her ever enter it. As soon as she could be trusted she got her freedom to be "queen of the entire house" and the crate was put away. To be honest, I have worked only part time for the past 20 years so my dogs were never crated for very long hours. I think I may have had some guilt if they had been. Then again Carrie knows that my animals sleep on my bed too so I, like Jackie and others here am a softy, although I enjoy her presence there as much as she enjoys being there. Carrie and Dixieland Dancer are very respected folks here at Pet Talk and neither would ever argue, rather only give their opinions. When we ask questions here we had better be ready to hear answers. Some of them we may like and maybe some of them we won't like. The fact that we are here asking questions in the first place is great, because it means we love our animals enough to want to try to possibly find better ways of caring for them.

[cleverdog]

Hello everyone, I am new to this site and was excited to see the decrating topic.
We got a beautiful 3 year old sheltie about two months ago. This was a chance meeting(he was lost and when we contacted his previous owners they did not want him anymore).
Teddy(our dog) has been crated since birth...used to eating in his crate also, he apparently was only let out to use the bathroom ant to play for a little, he also was not able to be socialized when he was young. I have had dogs before but nothing like this. We need tips,help, anything to hopefully get Teddy free of this confinment state of mind.

Please, please let us know what we could do.
(he is staying with us for good, we have patience and are willing to work hard)
Thanks

[lizbud]

Wow, this is an old thread.


Is not enough to leave the cage door open? He might want to park
himself in there part of the day, instead of only coming out to potty.If
you could tell what methods you have tried so far to correct this problem
then maybe people could give you better advice.

[carrie]

Wow, this is an old thread!!!!!

If you have been using a comand to get the dog to go into the crate then just take the crate away and leave the bedding in the same place. Use the same command to get the dog to go to the bedding. If the dog does not understand then show and encourage whilst saying the command.

If no command has been used then create one, "BED" or "GO TO BED" are good. Practice this with the crate in place for a couple of days and when the dog is responding remove the crate.

If the dog appears to miss the crate you must be sure not to change anything else, especially how you treat the dog. Any extra cuddles or sympathy will just confirm the dog's view that it has something to worry about.

Make everyone in the house aware that they should leave the dog alone when it is on the bedding and should call the dog to them before giving it a fuss or asking it to do anything.

[Pop Alexandra]

Wow, this is an old thread!!!!!
If you have been using a comand to get the dog to go into the crate then just take the crate away and leave the bedding in the same place. Use the same command to get the dog to go to the bedding. If the dog does not understand then show and encourage whilst saying the command.

That would be the recommendation found in most dog training lessons, and it makes sense not to overburden the dog with more commands if the old ones do the trick.