Full Out Rearing *Good Update!!!!

[areias]

Sigh...see this post:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=115760

I have rode twice this week, for the first time in about two months. On Saturday she was pretty good...she was starting to do a little bit of the behaviour, but I stayed pretty firm and she was okay. Today I got on her, went once around the field, and she started up again...only this time full out rearing. She was spinning and circling and dancing around too. I get very nervous on a horse that rears, which maybe only escalates the problem. I don't care if it bucks but I've seen too many people get hurt on a rearing horse. She wouldn't stop, wouldn't listen to me. I was so afraid she would flip over backwards. I tried circling and tried to get her moving but with no response. Somehow through some beautiful side passes (hah..yeah..) I made it to the back side of the field and pretty much bailed out (she would not stop spinning/coming up off her feet). She dosen't lunge or I would have made her do that. I made her walk around the field two or three times then brought her back, left her saddle on and put her in her stall (no food or hay, so no 'rewards' for her). I don't want her to think that when she rears I will get right off and untack her and she can go back out in the field.
My brother and sister were both there, they were supposed to be led around on her, but I decided it was just too dangerous.

Anyways went next door and the lady's daugher is going to come out on sunday and we're going to see if there's a problem-either with me, or with the horse, or with maybe the saddle. We don't think the problem is the saddle though. She dosen't use a bit so it can't be mouth pain. It's hard for me to admit defeat.

I feel like a failure.

[Suki Wingy]

I'm stummped. Seems like you did the right thing to me though.

[critter crazy]

Sounds to me either saddle fitting problems, or lack of respect. How much ground work do you do before riding? Do you lunge her first?? has she ever acted this way before. You said you havent ridden her in two months, have you done any ground work in the last two months???

[critter crazy]

She dosen't lunge or I would have made her do that.

I must have missed this when i read it! Why does she not Lunge???? That is the basics o ground work. Have you checked her feet?? could she have a sore foot, or something in her feet? The thing that gets me is the fact that she was bad the first day, and then worse the next day. Seems almost like she was in pain, and it got worse. The saddle fit could also be a problem. I know that you dont think it is the saddle, but a saddle that fits one month could not fit the next month. Has she gained/lost weight?? Sounds to me like she needs to have more ground work done, once you have established what the problem is.

[areias]

No, unfortunately, she dosen't lunge on a line. Never has-I tried working with her on it but she would just stand there and stare at me. I don't really have anyone to help me with the lunging (or two person jobs).

We do groundwork all the time. She follows me around like a puppy, haha. I wish I had access to a round pen, but I don't.

See, the thing is, she was fine when I first got her. A month later this started, and with the florida heat and her fly allergy, we took a break so she could just be a horse. And then I go to get back on her after the 2 months and she flips out. If it was a pain issue I don't think it would show up that violently. I guess you never know, but I'm going to try a different pad (mines pretty thick anyway) and a different saddle.

Her feet are fine, they are getting a little long and it's time for a trim, but other than that I tapped on them with the hoof pick with no response. (Believe me, I really tried to see if it was a pain issue).

I want to say that she's just testing me, and seeing what she can get away with. But I really have had some bad experiences-I don't want to stay on a rearing horse. I'm not trying to ask for perfection, but what I asked for was a pleasure horse that I could just go out there and RIDE and not have to worry about too much.

[critter crazy]

My mare Cocoa did the exact same thing to me.....After some closer checking, it was the saddle that was pinching in on her withers. So I got another saddle and that helped...then I found that she had weak hocks. So the farrier had to do some corrective shoeing and she was a whole lot better. I felt so bad thinking about how many times I would circle her and all until she settled, when the whole time it was the saddle. That meant she would give in to me and just work through the pain.

Check saddle fit, etc. Try a double pad to see if she reacts any different.

[Vela]

You need to start over with this horse from the ground up. If you dont have acess to a round pen, you should try fencing off part of the field she lives in, it doesn't even need to be an expensive fence, you could even fence it off and make a sort of round pen with green T posts and white tape, etc. You need to start from the ground up, as well as have a thorough physical exam done by a vet. MANY problems with horses under tack and while ridden are due to pain, some that can be hidden really well. She could have a sore back, malalignment, a problem in her legs, a problem with her teeth or ears, or neck. If it's not physical, it sounds like a lack of respect for you and lack of trust in you to be the boss. She needs to learn this on the ground and then in the saddle. Try looking at programs like Parelli, John Lyons, you can do these on your own with your horse and correct a lot of behavioral problems, as well as teach her she can trust you. Because she didn't have this problem when you got her, it could be any combination of things. You need to start from the basics of ground work and teach her to trust you and try again. Don't give up on her and admit defeat, you probably just need some extra help and honestly those programs and "games" do a lot to foster the relationship needed for a successful partnership. Don't give up, just start over from scratch. Good luck.

[Kalei]

Yeah I don't know what to say. with horses there can be so many problems, sometimes it takes a person who has delt with horses for all their life to be able to figure out the problem. I know what you mean about being scared on a horse, just in august I got on a horse and it wouldn't listen, it just kept galloping faster and faster and then we found out the saddle wasn't on tight enough and I fell off at like 40 kms per hours, I fractured a rib. It was scary. And as of today that horse still doesn't listen good to its owners. Hope you find the problem soon!

[areias]

Here's a little update.

The girl from the rescue came over and got on her yesterday. She reacted much the same way, maybe even a little worse. The girl's immediate opinion was either send her to a trainer, or trade her back in. She thinks that maybe that is why the lady got rid of her in the first place. It's very hard for me to fathom sending her to a trainer, where it's going to cost just about what I'm paying for her anyways (which is not cheap). I don't feel she's worth continuing the payments on her, unfortunately.
If possibly I could stop the payments on her and do the training, that would be fine, but I really can't do both.

And then she offered a proposition for me. She said that a lady had given her Ava (my horse) in exchange for a well broke QH mare. Now, about 6 months later, the woman returned the mare because she was "acting wierd". The mare delivered a foal the next day . They don't really want to give the horse and the foal back to the lady, as they don't think the lady is too knowledgable in regards to foals and such. They said they would take ava and give her back to the lady, and in return I could keep the mare. I would jump in a heartbeat if it was both the mare and the foal (the foal is qh x percheron) but I'm not sure if I would get the foal too. So I have some decisions to make. I really do like her on the ground, but I am getting terrified to ride her. I'm going back down there this afternoon for one more time before I make a decision, a friend of mine is going to be there to help too.

I would love to work through this, but I don't think I have the experience or knowledge to do so. Even with parelli or john lyons, I'm still afraid of being on her back. I think she knows that, and maybe uses that against me, but I can't get around the fear.

[critter crazy]

well from the sounds of it, it would be better for the horse if she went to a home, with a more experianced rider. You dont seem confident enough, nor do you sound like you have enough experiance to deal with these issues. I would Suggest you do not get a foal!! If you think this horse is tough to deal with, how easy do you think a foal will be??? It takes alot of time,. and experiance to rear, handle and train a foal properly!!

[Vela]

I agree with the above post, if you can't deal with this mare, then it is best she go to a home with someone who can deal with her and has the proper equipment and time to help her; however, you should not get a foal. If you can't or don't want to afford training for this mare, the same will apply to the foal. You don't appear to have enough training skills to deal with it from the ground up, especially without a round pen, and would need to hire a trainer to help break the foal anyway. It's not meant rudely at all, but I've been around horses all my life, and have trained some myself, including an off the range Mustang, so I'm not saying it to be mean, but I don't want to see you hurt and there is a lot to it. Any mistakes made with a foal are often lifelong lessons, for both good and bad, and untraining improperly taught foals is very hard, and often doesn't happen once they are adults. Your best bet would be to take in the well broke mare, sans foal, and enjoy her, or else look elsewhere for a different horse.

[areias]

Another little update.

I will not be getting the mare. (Or the foal) She had foundered, and that's why the lady had given her up. The people call it a pregnancy founder, but we won't know for sure until after the baby's weaned. I'm extremely wary of getting into that.

There is another reg. QH mare there, that they're not sure on selling yet. She does barrels and all that, and supposedly has an "on" and an "off" switch. The owner of the barn I board at has seen her ridden and said she did really well. Supposedly she's never offered any quirky behavior. I'm not totally sure though.

I'm going back and forth between options. The barn owner is holding a clinic with a well-known trainer on Sunday, I am going to try and get off work so I can go. I will see what he says, and go from there. Hopefully she will exhibit the same behavior so maybe he could give some advice. As I compare different opinions and options, I'm at a loss of what the best way is. When my mare is going good, she's great, and when she's bad, she's bad. To give her up for another horse would be just about the same as rolling the dice again, I could end up with a worse behavior.

And I have raised and broke foals in the past, just to let you know. Both did great and are very rideable right now. I just fall apart when it comes to rearing. If I were to get the foal, I would probably sell it as a weanling.

[areias]

Also...any recommended reading/videos?

[Vela]

Well like I mentioned earlier, at least look into Clinton Anderson, John Lyons, and Pat Parelli. I think you can even rent some of those videos in the library. Also, Anderson and Lyons have had articles in Horse and Rider magazine, which you could also probably read at the library, that talk a lot about how to work with your horses and build confidence and trust between you, which may be all you need to to do prevent her rearing. You are fearful, she knows how to get to you, and she uses it to avoid being ridden. i just think going back to basics with her may help her learn to trust you and maybe you can work through the difficulties by doing so, which is why I suggested it before. It's more about building a relationship between the two of you than it is about actually going back to teaching her groundwork.

Hope it all works out for you. Training or retraining adult horses can be very hard sometimes, since they don't come as a clean slate like a foal, and since you have some experience there, it may come in handy in retrainnig her as well. Good luck with that.

[Toby's my baby]

I had the same problem with the horse I have now. He was a dream when I first bought him, but after a while he started taking off towards the fence and would do a sliding stop right before the fence and rear up all the time. I had no idea what to do so I called a riding instructer and asked her what to do, all I had to do was : Pull back on the rains pretty hard and kick as hard as you can. Sounds pretty brutal, but it actually works. I'd hold on if I were you, because you dont know exactly how she's going to react. If she doesn't really respond, I would get a pair of "humane spurs" that look like this if you dont use spurs already... good luck, I hope you are able to make a decision!