Speaking of illegal immigrants...

[Edwina's Secretary]

You see criminals.

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Your mind is made up about them.

Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering?

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

[mugsy]

I am absolutely appalled that our government pays the way of so many illegal immigrants and has agreed to pay them Social Security (which is a benefit of American CITIZENS) and their medical care, etc. I don't care if they are white, black, brown, or green with pink stripes, if they are here illegally then they (the illegal immigrants from where ever) should be deported until such time that they can do it right. If the illegals are unwilling to do it correctly, and take the easy way out, then they need to stay where they came from until such time that they are willing to follow the steps.

As far as the May 1 walkout, we sort of giggled about it at school because it made no real difference and it didn't make a difference in business either. And the mere thought of the Mexican students in CO bringing down the American flag and running Mexican flag up the flagpole at their school about put me over the edge. IF they have such allegiance to Mexico, then STAY THERE.

However, as I said before, with the original reason for this thread, the man deserves some sort of compensation from our government since we are the people who wrongfully imprisoned him for 5 years.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ok, please explain to me why it's ok for you to use "them" but not the rest of us? Just wondering?

By the way, I have no problem with a guest worker program.

it was sarcasm MOFF...but you can certainly use any words you want to use!

[sparks19]

You see criminals.

FACT (Black Letter LAW)

I see people, born into grinding poverty, who make a trip that is at times very difficult and dangerous to take a job at the bottom of the barrel ...that no one else wants...to try and survive. In a place where they aren't always welcome.

OPINION

Please note that if these "poor souls" came to this country LEGALLY, they would not have to live such a "hard life".

Like it or not, this is a world of absolutes. When we as a society begin to blur the line....

Like one of the woman at the nail salon I go to. I don't know if she is legal or illegal. She told me once she was an accountant "back home" but the poverty is such...she wants more for her children...so she cuts the toenails of other women.

I see a guest worker program as a possible solution to what could be a very ugly situation on our southern border.

And I do not see a man serving five years in prison for a crime he did not commit as "just desserts."

I also know a couple that were veterinarians in Columbia and they came to Canada LEGALLY (which is just as hard as getting to the States) and now they are cleaners in an apartment building. It sucks, but if they could do it legally then anyone can.

Now please tell me why you think ONLY the southern border should be awarded these special treatments. Why doesn't everyone deserve this? How do you know I didn't come from poverty? Just because I am from Canada? So if someone were to rob your house you wouldn't press charges if they were "under privileged" ? (In MY house, they would leave with more holes than they come in with.... Sorry, but I do not have time to run a credit check on a home intruder.) They deserve to take your hard earned money because they don't make as much as you? If this isn't how you really feel then I don't see how you can support illegal immigration. They wouldn't have to do these crap jobs if they had come here legally and were able to apply for a "regular" job. Again, coming to America illegally is CHOICE. They have the choice to come here legally or illegally. They made the wrong choice. Why should we reward that? You are pro CHOICE aren't you? Why do I not deserve to come here to LIVE with my husband without having to pay all that money and having to fill out all that paper work? Because I am white? Because I don't come from hardship? Why? Tell me. Why do they deserve to be happy when they broke the law and I deserve to pay all the money and go through the stress because I "chose" my husband. Why punish the fruits of our labour? Because I busted my a$$ to be with my husband I don't deserve it? Success should not be punished, it should be rewarded. Success isn't given out, it is earned. I think it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to give people special treatment because they don't make as much money as I do. I WORKED (LEGALLY) to get where I am. Why does that make me a bad person? Why does THAT put me in the position to be judged by YOU?

Like I said earlier... This is a world of absolute TRUTH. You may spin it as you wish but history does not lie.

A thin line there is between Law and Chaos. Our society depends on the rule of law. The more that area is greyed out.... How do YOU plan to defend yourself when law and order fails? Will you run to the "poor and oppressed" you so vainly defend?

I wait eagerly for your spin.



P.S.- No where in this thread did I say he deserved 5 years in prison. All I said was that he technically was a criminal (despite your "views" on the LAW) I even said that he may not have deserved what he got and he deserves restitution HOWEVER I think HIS country should pay for it.

P.S.S- Do you know what Mexico does to their illegal immigrants?

[Edwina's Secretary]

The problem with absolutes is they are so ...well absolute.

For example....a man driving his in-labor wife to the hospital is speeding. Cop stops him....absolute says....detain him, write up ticket, etc.

Another example....kind and gentle man loves cats...hates suffering. He provides a home for many otherwise homeless cats...more than the law allows. Has them spayed or neutered...feeds them, provides them with proper vet care. He loves them while they live and mourns them when they die. Absolute says....must obey the law....cats over the limit have to go!

I see circumstances in both of these situations that suggest compassion, understanding and something more than absolute.

To me, the world is far more complex than absolute allows.

[lizbud]

Better be careful Sara, your wisdom is showing. Bravo.

[Killearn Kitties]

To me, the world is far more complex than absolute allows.

Absolutely!

[Cataholic]

P.S.S- Do you know what Mexico does to their illegal immigrants?

While in general, I have some issues with what seems to be your lack of compassion towards others, it is this statement that I select specifically.

This is somewhat of the 'problem'. A country that does such a thing to their illegals is not to be congratulated, or, be held up as some example. And, maybe, just maybe, some of the people crossing our borders are attempting to escape such a country for reasons like this.

While it is one thing to say, "you can only come here if you do it 'legally'", it is quite another to consider the people for which this is virtually an impossible task. I just don't see it so simply as you do. You seem to think that, "If they would only just try, they could do it". I don't think that is accurate.

For me, I just can't look at the world without compassion and empathy. While I don't claim to have the answers to any of life's problems, I don't walk around without knowing how very priviledged and fortunate I am to have been born an American. (which is not to mean I am disrespecting any other country, or, thinking that if you are not American, you aren't anyone. Just recognizing I live a pretty priviledged life, and haven't walked a half inch in anyone else's shoes.)

[Randi]

Well, I don't know that much about American history, but I know that most of the people living there are immigrants - or at least your ancestors are. I have not checked what the laws was like then, but I believe that when those people came to USA, they were given a piece of land and started from scratch to build houses and find work. Were they legal or illegal? I think that they felt a lot more welcome than today's immigrants!

The world has grown since, and some people are born in very poor places. Shouldn't they be entitled to a good life too? They are certainly not reluctant to take sh!t jobs!

John and I have travelled a few times to Dominican Republic, and although the tour guides recommended people not to go. John went to Haiti to see what life was like there. He filmed quite a lot, and also mixed with the locals (he had learned a few sentences in Creole, which helped him having an entirely different experience), while the rest of the group followed the guide, and in fact was scared of the population. When he came back to our hotel and told me how people were living there, I cried.

I have a feeling that a lot of Americans haven't travelled very much and seen what the world is like other places. Seeing things in real life often change your point of view I think. Recently, I saw a documentary about North Africans trying to get to Spain in small boats - it was heartbreaking! I would not have survived half the journey!

The immigration laws are changing all the time, and I think they need some adjusting now, to give everyone a fair chance to make a decent living. However, when a person comes to another country, he/she should make an effort to adjust to that country's rules and not try to convert the population to the rules they're used to.

Of course, the best solution would be to teach people in poor countries how to survive and build what is needed. Less children would help too.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Too bad we can't stop fighting wars and start helping other countries build up their economies so people wouldn't be so despirate they feel they have to leave, even if it breaks other countries laws.

Too bad some of our local programs for seniors and the low income have had to be canceled because the government can't afford to help it's own people any more either. I know lots of seniors who depend on some of those programs that no longer exist. (the programs, not the seniors)

[jackie]

I have been biting my tongue for ages, but I cannot hold it back anymore.

Sparks, you need to get a grip. You married an American, and are now working towards your citizenship. Great, I really hope you get it soon. I am just shocked by your lack of compassion for other people who do not have the means to go your route, and that you can not acknowledge you are privileged coming from Canada.

Please note that if these "poor souls" came to this country LEGALLY, they would not have to live such a "hard life".

I guess you don’t have any idea what sort of life that they left behind.

Why do I not deserve to come here to LIVE with my husband without having to pay all that money and having to fill out all that paper work? Because I am white? Because I don't come from hardship? Why?

No one is questioning your right to be in the States, in fact I have only seen people congratulating you. I am just amazed you cannot see the difference between yourself and someone who has no other chance to enter the US, except illegally.



I have been in Spain for 4 years, and have been processing my paperwork for all of that time. I am still not fully legal, and have spent thousands of euros and hours making these papers. Every week boats come here to Gran Canaria, filled with Africans, trying to enter Europe illegally. They come in huge numbers, run ashore with only the clothes on their back, after spend weeks living in their own sh*t and p*ss., in some cargo hold. Many claim refugee status, and get provisional residency within months. Even more simply disappear. Do I resent them or envy them for it? Not at all, I just wish all of them could be so lucky.

[sparks19]

Claiming refugee status and just hopping the border are two totally different things.

I am sorry that you all see me as having no compassion but the law is very clear.

I am sorry but there are far to many poverty stricken people in the US already who are legal. I think we should use our resources to help THEM. The people in this country who live on the street, who can't feed their families, the starving children.

I think we should fix the poverty problem here before offering to fix someone else's.

I never EVER once said that I did not recognize that I was privileged to be from Canada. I just simply stated that how do you KNOW I was not living in poverty. how do you know I wasn't living on the street? Canada has poverty and so does the US. You just assume that because I am not from Mexico that I had all the means readily available to me.

Like I said, you want compassion. I have compassion for the people who can't get any help from their own country because they are too busy with someone else's poverty.

I am sorry you don't see it this way but I think we should be helping our own people get on their feet, once that happens then we can work on saving the southside of the border.

I just can't see not helping our own people who are law abiding (for the most part lol) in favour of helping illegals.

And Jackie if you have something to say just say it. What is the point in "biting your tongue" if you have something to say about something you believe in then you should say it. YOU are not going to hurt my feelings by standing up for what you believe in and I don't think you are going to hurt anyone else's either. YOU should ALWAYS stand up for what you believe in, not just sit in the background wishing you had said something.

RAndi You cannot compare immigrants 100 years ago to immigration NOW. Times are way to different for them to be compared. it is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Cataholic]

I just simply stated that how do you KNOW I was not living in poverty. how do you know I wasn't living on the street? Canada has poverty and so does the US. You just assume that because I am not from Mexico that I had all the means readily available to me.

Your posts could not come from someone that had known such dire straits. And, you had means available to you, as you wouldn't be here if you did not. (I hardly consider living apart from one's recently married spouse dire straits).

There isn't any law that one must have empathy. You are free to make your judgments, as are all of us. But, I would hope that you would recognize the image you leave behind with your message.

[sparks19]

Your posts could not come from someone that had known such dire straits. And, you had means available to you, as you wouldn't be here if you did not. (I hardly consider living apart from one's recently married spouse dire straits).

There isn't any law that one must have empathy. You are free to make your judgments, as are all of us. But, I would hope that you would recognize the image you leave behind with your message.

Who's to say that my husband didn't save me from dire straits?

Anyway

to be honest. I don't really care about my "image" I believe what I believe and everyone else can make their assumptions from there. I don't live my life and believe what I do worrying about what others might think of me. There are ways for refugees to come to the US. Many have done it, many others can do it, they just choose not to.

I am sorry, I do NOT condone illegal immigration for anyone and if that makes me a bad person in your eyes well then so be it. There have been many refugees that have come from FAR worse conditions than Mexico and yet they are legal