when to ween off puppy food

[bckrazy]

That is awesome that you're feeding her raw! =) I'm sure she loves it.

How often do you feed bones? Steaks are totally muscle meat, which should be limited... beef rib bones, with the meat on them, would be better; and whole ( or half ) of a Chicken, etc. Just make sure you don't over-do the muscle meats and keep in mind calcium to phosphorus ratios.

[zoey]

That is awesome that you're feeding her raw! =) I'm sure she loves it.

How often do you feed bones? Steaks are totally muscle meat, which should be limited... beef rib bones, with the meat on them, would be better; and whole ( or half ) of a Chicken, etc. Just make sure you don't over-do the muscle meats and keep in mind calcium to phosphorus ratios.

Bckrazy, Hi.
Usually I"ll bake a whole chicken in the crock pot and give her some of the meat and bones from that. (It's good b/c the chicken bones get soft that way.) I have given her raw chicken breasts too. She also loves bacon, mackeral, salmon, & tuna. I give her some organs too, usually about 3 days a week, (beef liver or beef kidney so far.) A buddy of mine that we visit often, cooks beef ribs a lot, so she gets that or a small amount of steak. I always feed her lots of veggies. (She's always loved them.)Turnip greens, rutabaga, squash, bok choy. She's like every veggie we've tried, but raw celery. It's good b/c while I'm chopping them for her, I always eat a bit myself. (The green leafies are such an excellent source of calcium especially for folks who cannot absorb calcium from milk.)
She likes fruit too; Granny smith apples, banana, grapes etc. Lately I've itroduced rice into the mix. That's going well, though I"m going to purchase brown rice next time.
I stay away from kibble more and more. It only gives her gas and upsets her digestion, anymore.
The only thing i'm not sure of, is sometimes i think i give her too many bones from the chicken. We usually spit the chicken and she'll have all the bones. Do you think that ratio is too high then? Maybe I should just toss some of the bones. Thanks.

[mruffruff]

I thought cooked bones were a no-no.

What you are feeding isn't a raw diet. Raw means absolutely no cooking.

[zoey]

She likes the cooked bones. Why what's wrong with them?
Sometimes I cook the meat and we share it.

[wolfsoul]

Cooked bones are dangerous -- they are more brittle and difficult to digest. They can easily perforate the intestines, whereas raw bones are more palatable.

Grapes are toxic, so be careful. If you feed too many you can damage her kidneys.

I wouldn't bother with the rice. Rice is a grain and it's one of the reasons kibble is so bad. Dogs aren't meant to digest grains. The only reason to feed rice, in my opinion, is if the dog is too thin or ill. And in that case it should be white rice. White rice is actually better for dogs than brown rice. A dog's digestive system is not strong enough to extract the nutrients from the brown rice, so it can cause indigestion. White rice is just brown rice with the bran and pretty much all of the nutrients already extracted, so a dog can digest it better.

I disagree that lots of muscle meat is bad -- I feed a prey model diet, which is mainly muscle meat. In fact, raw meaty bones are somewhat of a rarity in a prey model diet (unless you have the rescources to feed whole carcusses, but since fowl and rodents are limited prey in the wild for most wolves, deer and other larger animals are the norm and are difficult to feed whole). Bone only makes up about 10% of a prey-model diet.

As for the original topic of the thread, I disagree with puppy food. In the wild, wolves don't grind up bones for the puppies for extra calcium, and they don't leave them all the fat. When the pups are still young, they feed them predigested food which has less nutrients. As they get older, they are the last to feed, which means they recieve less nutrients. Most of the edible bones would already be gone so they would get less calcium. So why do we feed puppies more nutrients when in the wild they get less? Less nutrients ensure slower growth, which helps to prevent bone/joint problems. How many wolves in the wild do you see with panosteitis, hip/elbow dysplasia, etc?

[bckrazy]

Please, please stop giving her cooked bones, period. I thought you were feeding raw? Cooked bones are very dangerous, even if they "feel" soft. They are so prone to splinter and cause blockages and tears in the digestive system, only raw bones can be safely fed. Not only that, but cooked bones are basically useless to be feeding because high heat causes the bones to be brittle and devoid of nutrients. Check out http://www.rawlearning.com and read everything you can! NO animal is intended to ingest cooked bones of any sort. So lay off of them, please

The amount of RAW MEATY BONES (note the "RAW" part) you feed depends on what feeding style you go by. Like, Jordan feeds prey model, which is 10% bones, 80% muscle meats and 10% organ meats. Feeding a Barf diet, you'd be giving at least 50% RMB's (which are bones with lots of meat on them, such as chicken/turkey leg quarters) 20% muscle meats (which would be a raw steak and such), 10% organs (with 5% of the organs being liver), and the other 20% can consist of RMB's or supplements such as dairy meals, oatmeal, pureed veggies (all veggies need to be blended or put through a food processor to be beneficial to dogs), or over-ripe/pureed fruits.

My question is, are you wanting to feed a home-cooked diet or a Raw diet? Both are far better than kibble if you do your research and make sure she's getting all of the nutrients she needs, but no diet should contain any cooked bones... not even lightly cooked, or microwaved, it is just too dangerous. If you want to give her part of your meals, tell your friend to save some of the RAW rib bones for you, or cut off the chicken leg quarters or the back to feed to her raw. Cooked meat & cooked bones just won't give her the right nutrients that she needs.

Jordan =0) sorry if I came off that way... it sounded like no raw bones were fed at all (which they aren't, apparently), and any raw diet should include at least 10% RMB's for sure.

[wolfsoul]

Jordan =0) sorry if I came off that way... it sounded like no raw bones were fed at all (which they aren't, apparently), and any raw diet should include at least 10% RMB's for sure.

Oh no problem! You didn't come off in a bad way at all.

[zoey]

Thanks so much for the replies.
First of all, on the bones, I thought the opposite was true; that the raw bones would be more splintery. But I guess I was wrong.
Some folks would say never to feed chicken bones to dogs, period. But a vet told me long ago, that when chicken is cooked in a pressure cooker or crock pot, that the bones get soft, and is therefore okay to give to dogs. I've never had any problems. And I would never give her bones cooked from an oven microwave oven.
I have done a lot of research, but I'll continue doing so.
And I may try the raw bones the next chicken we buy, if everyone here agrees they are okay. But I'm cutting out a lot of the bones, period. 10% is enough.
As for the grains, I did read that dogs don't digest them well, but also read that rice and oatmeal were okay. hm.
Anyway, I'm still learning, but my dog seems very happy and I work hard to take excellent care of her. She is growing slowly, so that's good.
I didn't know that grapes were toxic. Luckily that's one I don't give her much of. I won't give her anymore.
I appreciate your knowlege on these matters.