Declawing: against or for?

[kittycats_delight]

Well as for the dog. Why would he have to be chained up now that you son is gone? No time for the puppy? Just something to keep your son quiet and happy while he was home?

And as for getting a life. Are you not suppose to be an adult. Not just a young adult either considering you have a child in college.

And if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You are the one that originally said I'll stick my neck out here and be different.

No one agrees with your reasoning for doing what you have done to your cats. You had no right to deform them and torture them by declawing them. PERIOD !!!!

And as for you giving into the licking. Well, that was very big of you considering your cat was only showing you affection. But if I recall correctly it irritated you. So the kitty says "thanks so much much mom for letting me love you. I hope it wasn't too bad an experience for you."

Now I am done responding to your unjustifiable actions of having your previous cats declawed. So rant and rave and behave like a child all you want. I am now being the adult and finishing this conversation with you.


You are obviously in category #2 as PIF put it. You know what you did and you just don't care cause it suited you.

Finished...Complete....No More.

There is no arguing with someone who thinks they are right even when there is proof otherwise.

[tvt]

I can justify everything, but like you said yourself....there's no arguing with someone who thinks they are right even when there is proof of otherwise. You lack proof of how you are right, though.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
I have done everything that was advised for me (from the humane society, vet, other cat "owners" as I'm now titled) to stop the loveseat from being shredded, including putting catnip on the scratch board. Nothing worked, obviously, as she still does it.

What have you tried to train your cat ?

If you have the time to answer the questions below, I'm sure that you'll recieve many bits of useful post training tips.

Do you have the right cat tree for your cat, either horizontal or vertical covered with a desired scratching item....i.e. wood with or without bark, cardboard, carpet (right or wrong way out), sisal (rope or material) ? Look at where she/he scratches to give you a clue as to the type of post to buy.

Is this post sturdy and does not rock even if the cat stretches his/her full weight on it ?

Where is the post located in reference to where the cat sleeps ?

How did you show your cat what a scratching post is and how to use one ? (Cats learn from example or being shown, they are not mindreaders)

What positive reward did you use with your cat when she used the post ? An essential part of training a cat..simple as verbal praise and cuddles or a play session with a good toy or a food treat.

What did you use to cover the non post items/areas which are being scratched ? Can use depending on item...clingfilm, tinfoil, wool blanket, double sided sticky tape, etc

Be consistant with your post training and your cat will learn.

How old is your cat ? I ask as kitten sometime are naughty when being post trained.

Also lightweight catnip cardboard scratching boards are popular in our house even though they are not sturdy and move a lot our cats sit on them to stop them moving too much.

In total our cat herd have three cat trees covered in carpet and sisal rope both vertical & horizontal areas to scratch and also enjoy these light cardboard scratchers too.

I am not getting this cat declawed, so don't no one else cringe that I might do something "inhumane".

Good, glad to hear it.

Let me ask you all this--- why not talk to the vets in your areas about using a pain killer for the cats until the paws heal? I asked my vet when I had my previous cat done and she did prescribe something to use. You all make it sound like the cat isn't even put under anesthetic or anything, the vet just starts ripping claws out. It's not that way!

Declawing is illegal in England. I do understand pain meds are given at the time but the cats still has to live his/her entire life without being able to stretch properly as cats NEED their claws to fully stretch.

Your declawed cats will get stiff joints at an earlier age and have problems balancing and climbing at an earlier age than a normal clawed cat.

All operations performed on cats/dogs etc should ONLY be done, when it is in that animal's benefit to have the operation.

As the declawing operation has no advantage to the cat it should never be performed.

Altering is benefical to the animal and gives several health related benefits and so should continue to be performed.

[tvt]

PayItForward,
Thank you so much for the opportunity to explain, although I feel like I shouldn’t even humor anyone with anymore responses because I know that “kittycats_delight” is watching and will keep twisting everything I say. But, as I stated in a previous posting, I CAN justify everything, so this is my last effort to straighten things out….
1) I have “owned” many cats, clawed and declawed
2)The cat that is shredding my “precious” furniture is NOT and will NOT be declawed AT ALL for ANY reason. If it were going to, it’d been done already.
3)The furniture WAS in excellent condition BEFORE the cat’s adoption, but now it’s a life-size scratching post because her behavior could not be stopped in time to salvage.
4)Everything was offered to my cat to use for a scratching post that was suggested. These items are/were available to her at all times:
She has cardboard.
I bought a scratching post that is like a board with carpet and rope on it. When she refused to use it, I got some catnip and sprinkled some on it to draw her attention . There is a rope to hang the scratching board with, so I draped it over the arm of the loveseat and made sure it wouldn’t move. When she still refused to use it, I laid it on the floor.
She had a scrap piece of carpet.
I bought her own towel.
5)The furniture is cloth so tape won’t stick to it when I tried the foil trick. It would just come off and she would scratch anyhow.
6)She is only clawing living room furniture, but she sleeps wherever she wants. She moves from the loveseat, couch, our bed, her bed, all around. (Yes, she has her own little wrought-iron bed, but evidently I only OWN cats, I don’t love and spoil them.)
7)The cat was almost 2 when we got her. We adopted her from someone else that found her abandoned in the weather. They made sure we would/could provide her with a safe and clean home, even visited our house for her. (I know, What were they thinking!!!!)
8)When in the midst of clawing the loveseat, I take her over to the other items to use and spread her paws to expose the nail to the material, and I use a drawing motion to try to indicate clawing. I use the phrase, “good kitty”, but all to no avail.

So that’s the history of our Mystery. Despite others’ opinions, she really does rule this house.

Oh, and as for the dog issue:
Our son got the dog WITHOUT permission when he was 14, and beings how kids don’t think about the future, yes, we now have a dog chained up in the yard. We can’t let him run loose because we live in town and the neighbors will haul him off to the dog pound even though he stays home and doesn‘t hurt anything or anyone. Because the dog is bored and loves to play with children, which we no longer have living at home, we want to find a more suitable home for him, but evidently it is wrong for us to do to be thinking about the dog‘s happiness in such a way.

[PayItForward]

You are showing her how to use the post spot on, so no problem with that area of training.

May I suggest a heavy wool blanket, can be drabbed over the love seat whilst you train her. If the blanket can be sprayed with a citrus scent (lemon/orange) this will make the loveseat even less attractive to her.

I would recommend an upright post with base rather than a carpet pad (which I think you have from your description).

They do vary a lot in cost and construction. However having the right post is essential to succeed with post training, I really think investing in a medium sized sturdy upright post with carpet or sisal rope would help your training a lot.

Place this new post as close to the now blanketed loveseat as possible, you can move it elsewhere when she is using it regulally.

Then continue to move her to her new post at the first sign of scratching, like you have been doing.

Good Luck

[tvt]

Thank you very much for the suggestions. I was trying to figure out what to spray on the furniture to detract her, but no one seemed to know of anything that wouldn't stain the fabric (when it was new and mattered), but spraying a wool blanket wouldn't hurt anything, would it? Good idea, thank you.

[SUZANNE]

I UNDERSTAND THAT DECLAWING A CAT IS PAINFUL, HOWEVER, I AM MOM TO ALOT OF CATS WHOM ARE ALL FRONT DECLAWED. I HAVE 3 SMALL CHILDREN, AND ALTHOUGH IN A PERFECT WORLD I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT CATS DON'T SCRATCH, WE ALL KNOW THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I DECLAWED MY CATS FOR NOT ONLY THE SAFETY OF MY CHILDREN, BUT ALSO THE SAFETY OF THE CATS. HOW MANY CATS DO WE SEE IN SHELTERS THAT HAVE BEEN SURRENDERED BY THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY SCRATCHED THE CHILDREN IN THE FAMILY. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I PERSONALLY WOULD TAKE MY CATS TO THE SHELTER IF ONE HURT MY CHILD, HOWEVER, WE ARE ALL AWARE OF WHAT CAT SCRATCH FEVER IS, AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT FIRST HAND. SO ALTHOUGH THE DECLAWING OF CATS MAY SEEM INHUMANE TO SOME, ISN'T IT A BETTER SOLUTION THAN HAVING TO SURRENDER YOU CAT TO A DIFFERENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE HARM IT MAY DO TO A CHILD. ALL OF MY CATS ARE KEPT INDOORS, THEREFORE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PROTECTING THEMSELVES AGAINST OTHER ANIMALS.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by SUZANNE
I UNDERSTAND THAT DECLAWING A CAT IS PAINFUL, HOWEVER, I AM MOM TO ALOT OF CATS WHOM ARE ALL FRONT DECLAWED. I HAVE 3 SMALL CHILDREN, AND ALTHOUGH IN A PERFECT WORLD I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT CATS DON'T SCRATCH, WE ALL KNOW THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I DECLAWED MY CATS FOR NOT ONLY THE SAFETY OF MY CHILDREN, BUT ALSO THE SAFETY OF THE CATS.

I would not trust a normal clawed cat unsupervised with a child under 10 years old..it is just common sense.

However I would NEVER trust a declawed cat with any child of any age, as declawed cats bite instead of scratching and the cats bite causes more damage to a child, plus the germs in a cat mouth are more likely to cause infection in a bite, not nice at all

HOW MANY CATS DO WE SEE IN SHELTERS THAT HAVE BEEN SURRENDERED BY THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY SCRATCHED THE CHILDREN IN THE FAMILY.

I have never heard of a cat being rehomed for this problem in my city or local rescue centres. Though this is properly linked to the fact that as all cats in England are clawed, we accept that cats have claws and deal with it and supervise children with pets. However I would be interested in facts and figures for USA centres, giving up pets due to scratching children.

The only fact I have is that declawed and behavioural damaged cats account for 60% of the cats given up to USA shelters, so declawing these cats didn't give these cats a forever home.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT I PERSONALLY WOULD TAKE MY CATS TO THE SHELTER IF ONE HURT MY CHILD, HOWEVER, WE ARE ALL AWARE OF WHAT CAT SCRATCH FEVER IS, AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT FIRST HAND.

I understood that scratching disease was hard to catch from your cats and if caught was like a cold and people just recover from it.
I rarely get scratches off my cats, however if I'm taming feral kittens, they do scratch a lot and I simply clean any scratch well with antibiotic wash, I have never got sick.

Or if people are very worried there is always soft paws, plastic caps for your cats claws...no need to declaw at all.

SO ALTHOUGH THE DECLAWING OF CATS MAY SEEM INHUMANE TO SOME, ISN'T IT A BETTER SOLUTION THAN HAVING TO SURRENDER YOU CAT TO A DIFFERENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE HARM IT MAY DO TO A CHILD.

Actually children with a declawed cat at home are at more danger from being scratched by clawed cats than a child in a home with a clawed cat. The reason being, children growing up with a clawed cat have to be taught how to handle and love a cat in an good responsible way else they will be scratched. However children with a declawed cat will not be taught to interact correctly with the cat as the cat cannot scratch them, when this child meets a clawed cat outside or at another persons home, petshop etc, they are more likely to prompt a defensive scratch.

ALL OF MY CATS ARE KEPT INDOORS, THEREFORE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PROTECTING THEMSELVES AGAINST OTHER ANIMALS.

Accidents happen and careful cat owners come home to find their cat outside.

Your home could be burgled and the cat kicked outside...happened to an PT poster. The cat was recovered safely from a tree. However had the cat been declawed it would not be able to climb this tree.

Your window screen which is well fitted and safe, might fall out with your cat for no reason !! Again happened to an PT member. She recovered her cat safely several days later, luckily he had claws and could to fight/escape from the local dangers.

Accidents are just that, unavoidable. All cats will statistically end up outside at some point in their lifetime, hence (using your own point) should remain fully clawed so they can survive the experience.

EDIT. I notice whilst you are currently rehoming 10 of your 12 cats you note, that they only get on with older children...is this due to biting or other aggressive behaviour ?
Normal clawed cats get on with children of all ages, with good supervision/training. I myself was born into a home with nine month old Lindy cat and she never scratched or hurt me ever and she was my very good friend until she passed on at 16 years old from kidney problems. Lindy rest in peace.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
Thank you very much for the suggestions. I was trying to figure out what to spray on the furniture to detract her, but no one seemed to know of anything that wouldn't stain the fabric (when it was new and mattered), but spraying a wool blanket wouldn't hurt anything, would it? Good idea, thank you.

Great, maybe that will help ?

Have you thought about the option of buying a sturdy post and base type scratching post for your cat ? I really think it will help

[tvt]

Yes, I have the scratch post on the shopping list for my next check. It will be another week or so I think, but I'll let you know how Mystery does with it.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by tvt

And for the record, ms. know-it-all do-no-wrong, I have given in to the licking because it wasn't hurting me or her physically, and so I lost the fight and the battle on that one. BIG DEAL!!!

Surely, this must put you in the running for Ms. Humanitarian of 2005! Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back, sheesh. What you just won't do for your pets, eh? "Giving in..." to the licking....


Do I bow down before you, or what?

[tvt]

Nope, you go with kittycats_delight to get a life.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
Nope, you go with kittycats_delight to get a life.

Cataholic, has a very full and interesting life already and is a very respected member of this board.

BTW if you have to result to insults, then you have already lost the argument.

[kittycats_delight]

Originally posted by tvt
Nope, you go with kittycats_delight to get a life.

Why am I being brought into this again? And why are you bad mouthing me in other threads? We had some not very nice words but I did not slander you to other members privately or on other threads and I would appreciate it if you would stop. I told you already I am done with this conversation and I am not going to argue with you about it anymore. Please stop bringing my name into threads and posts when there is absolutely no need.

Thank you.

[Jennsen]

This is just a idea that really works for my cats. My husband bought a new cloth computer chair...and of course all 5 of my cats were all over it at once.
I wrapped bubble- wrap packing material around the back of the chair and continued it all the way around (front and back), because as mentioned before, tape doesnt stick well to cloth. Each one of my cats tried scratching on the bubble-wrap and immediately disapproved of it and the popping noise it made and now they completely avoid that chair!
It might look a little funny, but you get used to it in no time! And after awhile the bubble-wrap can be taken off and the cats will remember they didnt like it. If they continue after the wrap is taken off, put it back on for awhile longer.
It's safe, easy, and painless!