Pet Talk Training Course #1 - SIT

[elizabethann]

So this will be the first command we'll teach. Some of you have dogs that already know this command, but some don't (like Fenway will go "down" sometimes when I say "sit"). Why is that? So lets teach our dogs to "sit". I know Kfamr has some ideas (and others too). But how do you get your dog to "sit"? Do you use food? Where does your hand go when you ask your dog to "sit" (if you use hand signals)? Let's learn commands/tricks together so that by next week, our dogs will be pros at "sitting" & then we can go onto another command/trick. Don't forgot to post your pictures once your dog has mastered the command.

Okay, class #1 is in session.

[animal_rescue]

Oh Joy! All my dogs ruffly(hehe) know sit. So I'll definitely be working on that this week.

As for training: usually to teach sit I either A) Push their butt down while saying sit or B) Hold a treat over their nose, not to high for them to jump and not to low they can touch it standing.

[DrKym]

Wonderful! since mine know sit we will work on it as People approach and at curbs! Reinforce it and hone a bit more house manners! can't wait to see and share pics!

[cmayer31]

I will be working on sit with Frankie mostly. Any suggestion for working on sit without a treat reward? Frankie will sit for treats, but often times when we're out hiking I'd like her to sit with voice/hand signals, but without using a treat as I don't normally carry them with me while hiking.

[DrKym]

When teaching with treats, vary it. Give a treat for the first sit , do it again and just give a scritch or a good dog!, next time maybe a treat, etc. That way Frankie will catch on that SOMETIMES there is a treat and he will never be sure when so he will adapt and sit each time! My guys are happy with the praise and scritchies, but the occosional treat makes it a bonus!

[Anita Cholaine]

I got to teach Anita a few tricks, but she never really learnt sit, so I find this thread pretty useful.
I'll try to start working again on sit tomorrow, probably we'll do better with PTer's help.

[3GSDMom]

When I teach sit I hold the treat up over there heads where they can see it. Once they are paying attention I give the command and slide the treat up over their head - which usually puts them into a sit. If just using the treat as a lure doesn't help, you can also push their butts down while using the treat. Also, the method I use teaches them a hand signal as well. Travis will now sit (and do other commands) with just hand signals. (and no treats as lures).

I hope that made sense.

[agilityk9trainer]

Interesting responses.

First, I'd like to say that there is some thinking among professional trainers (of which I am one) that pushing on the butt to teach sit is causing hip problems, especially with big dogs. I and many professionals no longer recommend that old method.

The method I use is very similar to the one many of you have suggested. Take a treat. Hold it in your hand with the tip of your forefinger and thumb. With your palm up, put the treat RIGHT IN THE DOG'S NOSE. I mean, get that treat in the dog's nose, but don't let him have it. Let him get a whiff of what you've got. Then, slowly raise your hand up over the head and back. As the dog leans back to see the treat, the butt will fall. Don't push the butt down. You may, if necessary, very lightly place your hand on the back end, but do not push. The instant the dog sits, give a treat. Use a release word (OK) to release the dog from the sit. Praise verbally. You can pet as well. Repeat.

You actually don't add the command "sit" until the dog is luring into the sit position easily. Then, you will say "sit" before you begin the lure. Otherwise, the word "sit" won't develop power. If the dog can't even sit, how will it know what sit means?

Also, the biggest error people make with this method is incorrect placement of the lure. If your dog is jumping up to get the treat, you are holding the treat too high over the dog's head. Remember, it's up slightly and back - all done slowly. People also have a tendancy to move the lure way, way to fast. This is done slowly.

Over time, remove the treat from your luring hand. Keep the treat in your other hand, but continue to "pretend" there's a treat in your luring hand. Upon the sit, immediately bring in the treat with the other hand. Over time, lift your luring hand higher and higher in the air. This motion (moving your palm to the ceiling) will become your sit signal. Cool, huh!

If this method isn't working for you, you simply are doing it incorrectly. It does help to have someone watch you do it. In addition, seeing someone do it in person is priceless. Hence the importance of working in obedience classes with a real trainer.

As far as "fading" (getting rid of treats after a behavior has been learned) goes, I just posted a rather lengthy explanation on how to do that in Dog Behavior. I, unfortunately, cannot remember the name of the thread.

However, one poster said to treat for the first time your dog sits and not for the next, etc. This isn't the best approach when teaching a new behavior. When teaching a new behavior, you always treat for each successful competion of the behavior. You fade the treat away AFTER the dog has a full understanding of the command and the dog can perform it in any environment.

Also, when teaching a new behavior, I use the best treats I can get my grubby hands on. I'm not talking expensive, but the things my dog loves the best. This is usually human food. I only use human food as rewards in training, and also only for new behaviors or behaviors I'm having trouble with. Once the dog gets the behavior down, I will switch to a middle range treat (usually something store bought - my dogs like Bil Jac's Gooberlishish treats). Finally, you can switch to biscuits, and begin fading the food away (again see my post in Behavior).

Another aspect to teaching a strong behavior is "proofing." While your dog may sit fantastically in your house with few distractions, they may act like they've never heard the word when they get into a highly distractive environment. So, you must build up distractions as your dog becomes better at a behavior. I train at parks, strip-malls, Petsmarts, on walks, at people's homes - just anywhere I can find with an unusal environment that might distract the dog. Just remember. Increase the distractions slowly.

Also, an interesting point to know, dogs seem to "forget" behaviors at times. They will know sit like the back of their paw, and then one day, poof, it's gone. You'll ask for a sit, and they'll look at you like they never heard the word before. Seriously. Trainers believe they have kindof forgotten! This is EXTREMELY common. Don't get frustrated. Just go back to basics and retrain it. It will only take them a few minutes to "remember." Problems develop if the handler gets frustrated and begins getting angry at the dog. Then, "sit" becomes a bad thing, not a good thing. Always make training fun. Never get frustrated. This should be a game for the dog - not work. My dogs LOVE to train because I make it the most fun thing they do all day. It's play, play, play.

Have fun training!

[agilityk9trainer]

Ah, the thread I referenced in Behavior is called, "A Few Things I Need Help With."

[Anita Cholaine]

I've been working on sit with Anita today. She does it pretty well, but it's hard to make her respond to just a signal, without a treat. At first, she also only seated when I was standing, but then I starting moving around the house and telling her to sit while I was on my knees or sitting on the floor, it has worked well.

We'll have to keep working on this, but I'm sure she'll be a sitting expert soon

[Suki Wingy]

I use a fist as the hand signal. What should I do when I go to put his leash on and tell him sit and he doesn't, or walks a circle around me first? Even if I wait and ask him a minute later he seems to remember before and so he thinks he can keep doing this.

[agilityk9trainer]

I've been working on sit with Anita today. She does it pretty well, but it's hard to make her respond to just a signal, without a treat. At first, she also only seated when I was standing, but then I starting moving around the house and telling her to sit while I was on my knees or sitting on the floor, it has worked well.

We'll have to keep working on this, but I'm sure she'll be a sitting expert soon

As you are just beginning teaching the behavior, you shouldn't be doing just the hand signal without treats yet. You move to that slowly, over time, as she excels at the behavior. If you move too fast with behaviors, they will disappear.

[elizabethann]

I'm going to bump this up in case others haven't seen it yet.

I liked the comment critter crazy made about how your dog won't sit unless you're standing. That happens to Fenway too. I will have to tell him to sit from all types of places.

But I have a question. If Fenway doesn't sit, what do I do? Keep saying "sit" "sit" "sit" until he sits? Do I ignore him? Do I make him sit? What?

[cali]

most of my dogs were trained to sit with the treat over the head thing. Electra didnt quite catch on to that one though lol she like using her paws too much. so for her I placed my hand under her chin and lifted up and pressured inward, this causes her to sit. when walking I always have her sit at street corners(well I have all of them sit, but Happy and Misty dont have to be told lol) but when otherwise training right now I try to avoid her sitting as much as possable, just because she is not the brightest bulb on the tree and I dont want her randomly sitting in the ring lol

oh and for the standing thing, with Electra I start training something kneeling or sitting and then once is solid there I slowly rise up, just so the change of postions is not so huge. Leck is the only dog I have had to do that with though, BCs are so much eaiser to train lol

[agilityk9trainer]

I'm going to bump this up in case others haven't seen it yet.

I liked the comment critter crazy made about how your dog won't sit unless you're standing. That happens to Fenway too. I will have to tell him to sit from all types of places.

But I have a question. If Fenway doesn't sit, what do I do? Keep saying "sit" "sit" "sit" until he sits? Do I ignore him? Do I make him sit? What?

Good question. What you don't want to do is repeat the word "sit." In training dogs, you say the command once - in a nice tone - and that's it. If the dog doesn't obey, you have to make them sit. How? Well, this is where we get into problems trying to teach something over the internet. What you need to do is a maneuver that is so difficult to explain in writing, that I can't. I could only show you in person. It's a great maneuver that doesn't involve pressing on the back hips. If you do this move incorrectly, I could see you harming your dog. That is why I am not even going to attempt to describe it on the internet.

This is precisely why I strongly encourage everyone to join an obedience class. The trainer can help you in so many ways that a book, video or the internet cannot. I mean, here we are, talking about the easiest thing to teach a dog, and already it's become impossible to completely help.

I feel a little frustrated. I think it would be best if you asked a trainer in-person. They would be able to help.