behavior changes

[aly]

I'll try not to make this post too long but there's a lot to try to explain.

When I got Harley, I was really careful introducing him to my cat. They had a little bit of a rocky start but got along. After a week or so, Harley started chasing the cat (Shiloh). I figured this would happen since he had adjusted and was feeling more confident. I didn't see it as a problem though because Shiloh is young and playful and liked being chased. She'd smack him whenever she had enough and he'd back off. She even initiated the chases a lot of the time. Then a week and a half ago, I brought home my new dog, Reece. Reece and Harley get along beautifully and so do Reece and Shiloh. But all of a sudden, I'm having problems with Harley and Shiloh. He's going after her a lot more aggressively. I try to call him off and he won't let up. She hisses and smacks him and he just keeps going at her. Its awful. I don't trust him around her anymore and I've had to keep them constantly seperated. Every time I try to put them together, the same thing happens. I've had to crate him at night so Shiloh can comfortably sleep with me and have access to her liter and food too. Harley loves to sleep in his crate anyway. Whenever she walks by his crate, he'll whine or bark and scratch the door like crazy. It's getting worse and worse while I'm hoping and praying it will get better. I know the addition of a new dog can be stressful to the pets in the household but Harley doesn't show any other signs of stress or discomfort about Reece. I've basically been crying for 5 days straight now because I'm afraid of what is going to happen. To me, giving up one of my animals is not an option. At the same time I feel cruel to keep Harley in this situation that is frusterating him and stressing him. Since it has been only a week and a half, I am going to give it more time and see what happens. Its not very encouraging when I have to keep them seperated though. That means that there's constantly one animal being left out and it breaks my heart into pieces.

If anyone has ANY advice, I'd love to hear it. I'm desperate and heart broken.

[carrie]

For safety I think that seperating the animals is the only thing you can do when you are not able to supervise.

When all the animals are together keep Harley on his lead. As the cat enters the room praise Harley for staying in a down position but check him if he attempts to chase the cat. This will take some time to yeild results as Harley is having a ball chasing. He must understand that you will not tolerate it.
What started as a play has been encouraged by the cat running away. The cat had the upper hand as long as it could end the game by turning. As Harley is now feeling even more confident of his authority with the introduction of another animal lower in the pack he is pushing his dominance with the cat as well. You must assert your dominance by not allowing it and making it clear to Harley what is accepted behaviour and what will not be tolerated.

[aly]

Thanks carrie.. I have tried a little of that but stopped short because Harley was really refusing to stay calm. I think I will try again and be persistent and firm with him. I am constantly setting his boundaries because he's the most dominant little thing I've ever seen. Its just this cat problem has got me stressed because I want everyone to be happy.

Both the dogs are at doggy day care today. I'm hoping running around wild for 12 hours with other dogs will help Harley out a little and he'll be calmer and pooped when he gets home. I hope little Reece is doing okay. I think I'm the one experiencing the seperation axiety now though

I'll try your suggestion carrie and let you know how it works. I'm bound and determined to make them get along again.

[Angels3]

Just to add to Carrie's excellent advice.
Aly, we had a similar problem with a young male tibbie who came to live with our neighbours. He came from a privileged background but his owners had to find a new home for him because of his behaviour problems which were just like Harley's. We found excellent advice in some articles about dominance & pets living together. We all consistently put these ideas into practice, & the tibbie is much, much better. At base, we found teaching him basic obedience 'Sit' to earn anything...like a pat or a treat...important. We also found that when he got 'bossy', it helped greatly to give him the 'down' command...because this means submission. He wouldn't willingly go 'down' , so we would say 'Sit' & then quickly pull his front legs forward with one hand & gently but firmly push his back down with the other hand.
But all the ideas in the articles were great.
Go to http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/library.htm
Scroll down to (Potential) Behavior Problems
Under that click on Dominance/Leadership and More Than One Pet.
We found that working at these ideas consistently, over time, made a huge difference to the little dog.
All the best...& please keep us up-to-date.

[This message has been edited by Angels3 (edited March 22, 2001).]

[aly]

Hi Angels3, I will look at that website. I have been working on a lot of the dominance things with him (such as making him work for everything, making him go through the door last, etc). The problem is even though he sees me as "top dog", he sees the cat at the bottom of the pile. Maybe the link you posted will have some things I haven't tried yet.

Well their doggy play day is over. When I went to pick them up, Reece tore down the hall and jumped in my arms. I think he was begging me to never EVER take him back again. He likes playing with other dogs but only if I'm there with him. What a mama's boy Harley asked me why I came an hour early. He still wanted to go fight with the St. Bernard that was 4 times his size. He was running circles around my legs as I was writing the check. Then when I tried to walk, I banged my head on the wall and almost fell down Reece was still in my arms and I was starting to feel the effects of single motherhood, hehe. I was hoping Harley would have worn his energy off today but I didnt think he had after all his antics before we had even reached the car. As soon as we got home though, BAM, two dogs knocked out in the middle of the living room floor. I had to poke Reece with my foot to wake him because he hadn't heard me calling him. Harley ate dinner laying down, hehee. Later I'm going to put him on a leash and try some exercises with the cat.

[aly]

Here's pictures of the troublemaker, Harley. I'll post a pic of Reece when I get the film developed and scanned.




He wants to let everyone know, it wasn't his choice to wear a purple collar but its the one his mom likes best His other ones are too manly!




[This message has been edited by aly (edited March 25, 2001).]

[Angels3]

Aly, that Harley looks like an absolute saint in the photograph. He's incredibly cute. I'm really looking forward to seeing Reece. How are they all getting along?

[tatsxxx11]

Harley is just beautiful! Eagerly awaiting Reece's photographic debut! I recently began introduction of an 8 month old kitten into my home consisting of two LARGE dogs, a guinea pig and one senior kitty who suffers from asthma. I was so fearful of the senior cat's reaction and didn't want to unduly stress him. I knew my lab would be OK with it. But my other dog is a real squirrel chaser, and boy, does the new kitten Oliver look like a squirrel. I did what Carrie suggested. Integration was slow and very supervised. When I did allow Oliver to roam freely within a confined area with the dogs, I kept my Cody on a lead, and corrected and praised her for each time she ignored the kitten. Now Cody goes out of her way to avoid the kitten and walks around him or just ignores him. It is a very stressful time. I have to agree with Carrie that you shouldn't leave them together unsupervised at this point. Whenever I leave the room, or house, Oliver is put in another room with the door closed, and it's been a few weeks now. In time, I hope that all your kids will be happy and safe together. I can't imagine giving any one of them up either! Sounds like doggie play group is a good thing! Anything that would make my guys konk out like that at night is for me! Seriously, it sounds like a great way to allow Harlely to vent and work off some of that energy! Sorry about the head banger! ***OUCH*** Things have to get better from here! LOL


[This message has been edited by tatsxxx11 (edited March 23, 2001).]

[ownerof3dogs]

He is so cute. you can tell he is such a character

[RachelJ]

I loved your story of how you acquired Harley and Reece. It really warmed my heart and hearing about these situations is the VERY BEST THING about Pet Talk. I think with a wired haired fox terrier you will always have to be on your toes.

There was an animal behaviorist on TV the other day and a question such as yours came up. His suggestion was to have each dog spend some individual time with the cat without the other dog there. He really didn't explain how this would help. Maybe cementing the individual relationships or making supervision a little easier. It does sound like a reasonable tactic.

[aly]

Thanks Rachel, I will try your suggestion. Since I've gotten Reece, I've divided his time like this: 50% of the day with just me, 25% of him being alone, and 25% of him with Harley supervised. This was recommended by the shelter to do for at least 2 weeks. I asked about time with the cat but they didn't have a definate answer so I've been judging it for myself. There's absolutely no problem between him and Shiloh anyway. I can even take his paws and bat them around Shiloh's face and she'll just yawn. When she sees Harley now though, she gets on edge. I think the main thing is for Harley to have a lot of supervised time with Shiloh and not have Reece there so he can learn how to act. I can correct him pretty easily if he gets too rowdy with Reece. The cat is a whole different story though. Whenever he sees her now, he acts like he's been possessed by a demon. I've tried several times in the past few days bringing him near her while on a leash. Every time, he makes weird barking noises and pulls on the leash really hard. Every time he lunges, I correct with a "NO!" but he ignores me. I tried waving treats in front of his face to distract him from the cat but that didn't work. I'm just going to keep trying different things.

I noticed the links of Harley's pics were broken so I fixed them. I can't wait for you guys to see Reece. He looks like a cute cartoon dog I have Reece signed up for a temperment test to see if we can do therapy work at hosipitals and retirement homes. I had wanted to do this with Harley but he's not exactly cut out for that job, hehe.

[Genia]

Harley's a cutie. Bandit says to tell Harley that he has to wear a dreadful purple collar too! He prefers the black one, although the red one goes nicely with his coloring

[RachelJ]

Originally posted by aly:

I noticed the links of Harley's pics were broken so I fixed them.

The broken links didn't stop me. I went to PhotoPoint and found Harley there. He is the cutest little guy but I can see the mischief in his eye.

Sounds as if you are really working with him the right way but that this is going to be a real challenge.

[Daisy's Mom]

Hey I am not very good with questions like this, but I have an idea. When Harley pulls on the leash to get at Shiloh, you could try using the penny bottle. That thing is a life saver! Fill a plastic soda bottle with a few pennies and when the dog misbehaves, slap it down on the floor or on your hand really hard. The noise is awful and whatever the dog is doing, it will stop! You could try that if you wanted Hope I helped!

[aly]

Daisy's Mom: I'll try the pennis in a milk jug. I'm willing to try anything. I jsut want them to all be happy. I'm getting really stressed about this again. I had been feeling better and thought for sure it would work out. But now every day its getting worse and worse.

When I got home today, I went to my room to put Harley on a leash so I could take him out. As we were walking to the door, he saw Shiloh and did a whole lot of lunging and growling. I got him outside and when we came back he, he became very intent on finding the cat. I snatched her up and put her in my room when he wasn't looking. Meanwhile, he was sniffing and running all over trying to find her. He finally sniffed under my door then just layed there waiting for her to come out. Shiloh is scared half to death of him now. I've just been sitting here crying because I try so hard to make sure they are all taken care of and happy but I feel like I'm failing. I'm constantly having to keep them seperated with doors shut dividing the house up. I wish I could let them all just run around but I fear for the safety of my cat. So now I feel like I'm restricting Harley from being a dog. He used to be so good with the cat. I just feel like an awful pet owner right now.