Doggiemom DESPERATE for advice!!!

Okay, this will not be an exaggeration here....

Maddie and Lexi WILL NOT stop going potty in this house. Seriously... Lexi is good and will go outside and do her business but as soon as I turn my back she will STILL go in the house at somepoint! SHE KNOWS BETTER!!! Maddie REFUSED to do ANYTHING outside for the first two days... she took her first pee outside on Thursday but she still goes in the house too! I cannot let these two out of my site for a second or I will see a mess! It is killing us and causing A LOT of friction for Augie and I. They don't act stressed out at all although I know that there lives have been uprooted BIGTIME in the last 3 months. Now more than ever especially but they seem to have adjusted great... except for this HUGH problem. Lexi is free to run outside and even learned her boundries of the yard (there is no fence) in a day!! She loves it outside. Maddie we have to keep on a leash because she will run away and not listen when you call her. So it is harder for her because she is not used to that. But they still seem happy and fine.

Maddie and Hooch play together all the time and love it! Lexi acts like "mother-hen" though and watches them play and then bites Hooch as he comes near her when Maddie and him are playing... she sits there and growls and growls and barks when they get rough.

Anyway, the problem is the potty in the house.... it's like they just don't care and will go in the house the first chance they see. I have tried everything but it won't stop. Please please tell me what I can do. This is so frustrating and I am literally loosing my mind over this. Everything I try backfires.... I lock Maddie in the kitchen so she will relax a bit and if she goes potty I can clean it up easier than on carpet, but what does she do? She eats ALL of Augie's sandwich bread that we just bought. I lock her outside on a leash so she is FORCED to go outside and what does she do? Starts digging a HUGE hole in the yard!!! UGH!! I am home with them ALL day because I don't have a job yet. I take them outside every couple of hours so WHY are they doing this?

Anyone with advice please help me. We are desperate. Thanks.

[shais_mom]

I know we talked about this when Sasha and Lexi weren't getting along, but is there ANYONE that Augie might know that would let you borrow a crate or crates? Or maybe contact a breeder or humane society and rent 2? I think this would make a world of difference. Just a thought.

[carrie]

Firstly let me say congratulations to you an Augie - what a sweet story - the best of luck to you both and I wish you every happiness now and for a long and bright future together.

Now to the dogs.

I'm sorry to say that your dogs are showing major signs of stress and anxiety. The last few months have been hard on them and they are struggling to adjust. The problems are compounded by the way they are coping with the stress as this is stressing you and Augie out and making the dogs worry even more.

Don't Panic! It is fixable.

Maddie and Lexi have been a team for some time and, while it seems that Maddie is keen to accept a new member into the pack, she will continue to be unsettled by Lexi's attitude to Hooch.
Hooch is happy to have a playmate in Maddie and happy to ignore Lexi's attitude. By doing this he is seeking Maddie's support and showing Lexi that he considers himself top dog around the place. Why shouldn't he? It's his place, his garden, his house etc. etc. Poor Maddie is confused, she is responding to Hooch well but is torn by Lexi also trying to act tough and stamp her authority on the situation. Lexi is in turmoil - not only can she see her boss human being "taken over" by another boss human but her little pack is also under threat from a big strong boss dog. She doesn't know what to do or how to cope with her life falling apart. The two dogs feed off the stress shown by each other and are trying to re-establish their places, emotionally and physically.

( I will carry on with this in about ten minutes or so.......)

[carrie]

(I'm back - sorry, HUGE, scary creature in my daughters bedroom that turned out to be a very small spider that I then had to show her running to freedom in the back garden!!)

It's really great that you are home all day at the moment (not for your bank balance, I'm sure, but for the dogs!). Dealt with strongly and firmly, taking into account what the dogs need and are missing at the moment I am confident this can be sorted out.
Augie and you will have to agree to the same strategy and stick to it 100% at ALL times for the dogs to feel secure and safe again. This will mean treating them in a very different way to normal for a while and never, NEVER breaking the rules.
In your favour is the fact that you a true dog person, you know your dogs very well and don't over-humanise them.

I have the beginings of a plan but just want to make sure of a few things....

Do the dogs have seperate beds?
Do any of the dogs sleep on the bed with you?
Do they sleep in your bedroom at night?
Are they fed at the same times?
Do you have a place to free run them?
Do they tend to wander around the house or settle in one place?
Are they using one room more than any as a toilet or any particular area of the room (under the window/in the middle/near the walls or door?)?
Do you leave toys out for them to play with?
How do they react to you paying attention to Augie and Hooch?
Have you noticed a lot of yawning or panting?

No, it's not the Spanish Inquisition - I really want to help but have to be sure that my first instinct is right on this. It wouldn't help at all to do the wrong thing with this and you deserve to be a happy person with happy dogs.
If you would rather email or use the private message I have no problems with either.

Do the dogs have seperate beds?
Do any of the dogs sleep on the bed with you?
Do they sleep in your bedroom at night?
Are they fed at the same times?
Do you have a place to free run them?
Do they tend to wander around the house or settle in one place?
Are they using one room more than any as a toilet or any particular area of the room (under the window/in the middle/near the walls or door?)?
Do you leave toys out for them to play with?
How do they react to you paying attention to Augie and Hooch?
Have you noticed a lot of yawning or panting?

1. Maddie and Lexi sleep together closed off in the kitchen. Hooch sleeps in his bed in the living room.

2. NO DOGS ON THE BED (Augie's rule)

3. Refer to question 1.

4. They are all fed in the mornings in the kitchen and eat well out of their own bowls. No fights or anything.

5. Lexi and Hooch run free in the yard but Maddie has to be on a leash... or she will take off.

6. They wander and then settle where ever they want.

7. They were using the same exact spot in the living room for a potty and then broke tradition and went in the kitchen the other day.

8. We don't leave toys out -- confrontations might arise but when I'm watching I will throw some balls out and let them play with them.

9. Maddie reacts great... she doesn't care. Lexi is ALWAYS the alpha dog even in a strangers home with a strangers dog so she gets snippy when I call Hooch. If I'm in the kitchen and Hooch wants to come in she will stand in his way and growl. Hooch is very mild mannered and just walks away but we can't let Lexi do that.... this is Hooch's house!

10. No, haven't noticed either of those two things.

Hope that helps answer your questions. Thanks Carrie - I knew I could count on you!

[carrie]

Angel,
I'm so sorry that I haven't posted "the plan" yet but I have been caught up with other things. Not very flattering for you, I know, and I apologise again. I have been swamped with emails today - a farm in N. Yorkshire has two sheep with suspected Foot and Mouth disiease and all my friends are going bananas.

I promise - that is a PROMISE - to email you tomorrow with "the plan".

I have been asked by several people to post this news and I am going to do it in just a second on the general board, but wanted to apologise first. You have not been forgotten, just hang in there one more day...... I'm really sorry, I know how horrible it must be for you both and I hate to put anything else first. This is dreadful news for many of my friends and if it is confirmed then ........

I'm a bit in shock, you probably guessed from the rambling, but I will "plan" you tomorrow!!!

[Angels3]

Have a look at this site. It describes how a pet owner went thro' what she called a 'poop and pee war' with her 2 adult dogs. Tells what she did & what happened eventually.

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/sdrl.b.html#Blackberry

No worries Carrie..... your life comes first!!!! You have more serious things to deal with.

I will be waiting!

[Dixieland Dancer]

I know Carrie is coming up with a plan but I also have a few ideas that may help. You can take the best of both our advices and modify them to best fit your circumstance.

You need to be very patient at this time to help both Lexi and Maddie to feel more secure and less anxious. From their perspective, their whole world has been turned upside down. They have had more changes in a short period of time than some dogs have in an entire life. They can adapt but how quickly and how successfully depends on both you AND Augie.

First off, let's deal with the Potty issue. Forget that they were ever house trained and go back to square one. Take them outside, One at a time if need be and give the command, GO POTTY. When they do then you need to make a fuss and reward with a treat. They will soon remember this is what mom wants. They do want to please you!

If they potty in the house, STAY CALM! Do not yell or get excited and act like this is the end of the world. Just calmly take them outside and give the Go Potty command again. If they don't then no reward. Take them out frequently during this period so you can set them up for success. No playing outside or anything until they potty. Again BE PATIENT. They have a lot they are dealing with.

Your response to going potty in the house can actually be fueling the unwanted behavior. I know some of you are thinking what is she talking about??? Just remember the dogs are in a turmoil. If you act and give attention to the dog (even though you know it is negative attention) you may be reinforcing this negative attention getting behaviour of the dog. They may be so stressed that any kind of attention is better than no attention. Dogs are very careful observers of human behavior and they learn quickly what gets their owners attention. Make sure your response is not an attention getting one for the dogs.

On another note here, If you don't see the dogs in the action don't do anything.

Basically in your case, you want to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative! Reward (really go nuts in praise and give treats) for appropriate potty behaviour and play down any response to unwanted behaviour.

While I am not a avid fan of medications to control dogs behaviors, there are antidepressents available to help the dogs through this trying time. If you do not see any progress in the next couple of weeks by trying to relieve the dogs stress through natural methods, then this may be an alternative to consider.

Spend quality time with each dog individually. Play time and exercise are great ways of relieving stress. Don't just let them out and expect them to play with each other. You need to be involved deeply in this time. Work basic obedience with hand feeding (we talked about this before) and reinforce yourself as Alpha and that everything will be okay. It is important for Augie to give your girls some extra attention during this transition period too! Have him hand feed Lexi and/ or exercise her with none of the other dogs around. Her feeling of acceptance of him will make the most difference towards harmony in the house.

It is important to get them into a daily schedule and stick to it as best as possible. Dogs feel more secure and less anxious if they have a predictable routine in their day.

The bottom line is with patience and persistence, you should be able to solve your dogs' housesoiling problems by relieving some anxiety and establishing you and Augie as Alpha over ALL THE DOGS!!!!!

[RachelJ]

Candy's advice sounds right on target as far as I am concerned.

[aly]

Along with Candy's excellent advice, you may want to try putting a few drops of Rescue Remedy(made from flower essences I think) in their water. It works wonders to relieve some anxiety.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Carrie.... I still want to hear your advice. Please post when you get a chance! I am praying you are not updating because of the dreaded Foot and Mouth disease again!