anyone heard of this?

[Jennsen]

I have a question about my 5yr old Lab and hoping someone can help. I'll start first with the history of our health problems.

I owned 2 brothers that were 4 years apart, same mother different fathers. They were both diagnosed with thyroid problems at the same time and are on medication. The older Lab then developed califlower like tumors in both ears and after lots of testing and 8 surgeries we finally had to put him down 2 months ago.
Here's what my question is about,
Since the younger lab was puppy he lays down with his back legs stretched out behind him. I thought he'd outgrow this as puppies usually do, but at 5yrs old he still lays like this. He also has walked a little funny. His hips sway back and forth and his back feet turn in a little as he's steps. This hasnt seemed to bother him until a couple of weeks ago. Now he seems to have a slight limp with one of his front legs. He has no problems getting up to rise, or run full speed when he wants to though.

After our long ordeal with the area vets for our older lab, I dont trust these vets! We live in a small town, and the next closest vet is quite far away. I'm quite possitive they had only money in mind, total vet costs were $6,250 and I'm afraid they'll do the same thing with my surviving lab. I'm going to take him to the vet 100 miles from here, but I was hoping before we go, someone might have some information about this, so I wont be blind-slided again. Thank you for any help you can give me!

[LorraineO]

I cant help much but I do suggest you do some research on the net regarding this issue... Best of luck to your baby!!

[Scooby4]

How old was the original lab with the cauliflower tumor issue? Was the results ever cancerous? I am asking because I had an older dog that had a tumor on his head. It was small and mostly hidden by his hair. However, it did have a waxy buildup and bleed occassionally. It turns out the tumor was like an old age spot for dogs. It wasn't serious and could be removed by a groomer according to the vet. I just wondered if this could have been a similar condition. If so, I do hope you find another vet.
The other dog could have a form of hip displacia. Which can be common in certain breeds but mostly German Shepards. You may want to give the dog some Gluacostimine tablets and occassional dog aspirin when flared up. Although this isn't an exact cure it should help treat the symptoms.
I would also suggest giving a doggy massage to the general area. Do this in small gentle circles around the joints. If the dog tries to lick you or nip at you then stop. It may be painful at first or your technique is too hard. Make adjustments and try again. My dog responded very well to this stimulation.
I hope you luck. I am sure someone else has good advice for you as well.

[bckrazy]

Hip Dysplasia is VERY common in Labs .. it sounds like your pups came from a really really bad breeder who didn't health test at all. Have you told the breeder about your problems? Tell her to stop breeding while youre at it

My sister rescued a Black Lab/Pointer, and he has minor hip dysplasia. He's only 3 years old now, and it hasnt been painful or severe enough to need medication, but I'm sure it will in a few years when arthritis sets in. He lays like your dog does, "froggy-style", and when he sits he is totally off-balance and puts very little pressure on his right hip, he also walks funny like your pup. All you need to do is ask the Vet to take X-rays of your Labbie's hips.. if the dysplasia is noticable, a good Vet can feel the hips and determine if there's a problem. Definitely take him to the Vet thats farther away, if you don't feel comfortable with your local Vet. Good luck, I really hope your boy is ok!!

[Jennsen]

Hi scooby4, the tumors looked like big pieces of califlower coming out from the inside of his ears. The surgeries would take them out but they would be right back within weeks. They would quickly grow to about the size of a ping-pong ball, and there would be many little ones starting to grow around this big one. Yes we found out in the end it was cancer. These local vets did several tests for cancer, but would always say it wasnt.

I got my boys from a very reputable breeder with champion bloodlines out of Minneapolis. He had all his dogs vet checked and had all his papers to prove it. The older labs father was a 4 time field champion and died peacefully of old age as did their mother. He said he had'nt heard of anyone else having problems with their dogs...but that was just his word. I'm greatful for every minute I've had with my dogs though, they are(were) the best natured, well mannered beautiful dogs I've ever known...but I have to wonder why both of mine have had such problems. I have to figure also that labs have been soooo over bred as with most pure bred dogs have been!

It doesnt bother him to have his hips rubbed, and he's showing no pain at this time...but it's probably too early yet. I'm having him checked by a vet hospital this time!

Thanks for all your replies, and I'll keep you informed on what I find out.

[dragondawg]

a transitional, basal cell, or even Mast cell cancer. It could have been locally invasive or metastatic. It should not have taken surgery 8X over to get an accurate pathology reading. For a tumor like growth to reoccur and grow so rapidly should have been clue enough for the Vets that a cancer was involved.

As for your other lab puppy you could have a combination of hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia.

Another thing you should discuss with the other Vet and/or specialist is whether the thyroid problem is completely under control. Hypothyroidism can be associated with muscle weakness, and nerve damage which can lead to lameness. Although your dog is on thyroid medication, there may be periods of the day when it doesn't have enough thyroid hormone. If Xrays eliminate the dysplasia as a problem, look to the thyroid control as a possible cause. It may take several blood samples to measure the T4 throughout the day.

As for the question why you are having these problems- genetics. What does it really mean for the sire to be a 4X field champion? It means the dog excelled in the expected behavior for the breed in hunting. What does it mean per the health of the dog? Nothing! The breeder claimed the sire died peacefully of old age??? Euthanasia can be very peaceful. It's quite obvious the mother had a severe thyroid genetic defect she was passing onto her offspring. Chances are she was showing clinical signs herself, despite the breeder's claims.

Nothing beats a Lab for temperment.

[lvpets2002]

Yes your story sounds so commen at my house hold & I as well have a five year old Choclate Lab that has had all kinds of problems. Thyroid was the major factor & had to be on all kinds of medication & blood work done every week & then diabetic & then all kinds of skin problems & one thing she would do was lay with her hind legs behind her or on her back with legs straight in the air & my Vet stated that with the medication she was on & the thyroid problems that she had Hot Spots in her inner thighs & that was her way of keeping her hot spots within her thighs cool & the rubbing on the ground with legs behind was relaxing. Hope I helped.

[Jennsen]

Hi Ivpets2002,

Yes, my lab also has skin problems that can be really flaky at times, and he also has hot spots on his inner thighs. And if I'm even a couple hours late on his meds, his eyes get goopy and start to swell slightly.

Twice last week as we were in the park walking something odd happened with his hip. The first time he saw a big stick about 15 feet in front of him and he ran and dove on it falling down and yelped and cried. I rubbed his hip and leg and he got right up like nothing happened and has been normal until yesterday when he lifted his leg to urinate and couldnt put it down. I rubbed it again and it went down and he trotted off like usual. He doesnt seem to be in any pain at all, except for the few minutes when this happened. I have an appointment at the vet hospital but cant get in for 2 weeks yet because it's not an emergancy. I'm praying it is all related to his Hypothyroidism as dragondawg mentioned, every other problem he has seems to be!

Thank you so much for your replies! They have been a great comfort ! Here's a picture of my boys(if I've done it correctly)
Jenn

[jesebellea]

my sis has a lab, named lacy, and she has hip dysplacia, she has had it i think right since birth,
they have been to vet numerous times, and have been trying their best to keep her comfortable,
the vet told them to give her bufferin when it seems she is really sore, after playing or any activities,
but there is another problem that lacy has had since birth, and my sis and the vet have never yet found anything to help with this,....
lacy bowel movements have always been liquid form, never ever have they been solid, and after many different trials with food and meds, nothing has changed this,
she is now 4years old, and has been like this since my sister got her as a pup, it was getting to a point where lacy was losing a lot of weight, and my sister thought she was getting so sick they would have to put her down,
but then they tried the new iams gravy that you pour over their food, and lacy actually started to put on some weight, and it getting a bit healthier now, but her stools are still water, that hasnt changed,
anyone else heard of this digestive problem with dogs, as we have never experienced this?

[Jennsen]

Hi jesebellea,

Has your sister ever had her thyroid checked? My labs stools were always runny too, and now that he's on thyroid medication his stools are soft only when his meds need adjusted.

Another great thing I have learned over the years with both my cats and dogs is to give them pumpkin pie mix. It's a pure and natural veg fiber and regulates their digestive systems well. I started giving it to one of my cats for hairballs when medication wasnt doing any good with. The pumpkin pie mix cleared up the hairball problem within days! All you do is take 2 Tbs of the pumpkin pie mix and mix it with their food once or twice a day for dogs. And 1Tbs for cats mixed with soft food, because cats can be very picky with it sometimes, but will eat it right up with soft food. It cant hurt in any way, and I'm sure you'll be amazed with the results!

Good Luck!
Jenn

[jesebellea]

thank you for the advice, i shall pass it on, i dont know for sure if her thyroid was checked, i know they did a lot of tests on her, and the only thing they mentioned was maybe a problem with her kidneys, but cant remember now what they said
at least i can say that there is another dog out there somewhere with similiar problems, as we had never seen this problem before,

[mruffruff]

I assume the pumpkin you used was NOT pie mix. Use plain pumpkin in the can, not pie mix.

[Jennsen]

Thank you mruffruff! Yes I'm sorry, it's plain pumpkin in a can, not the pie mix!