I have a question......

[wayne0214]

why is it that my two color-point Siamese are called "apple heads" on so many web-sites which show these cats? Is it because the shape of their head is not the same as the dark piont (traditional) Siamese breed? Also, are the color-points not pure bred Siamese, but rather a mixture with other breeds? Just curious.

........wayne

[Karen]

Applehead is just the difference between the more rounded, older fashion in Simaese, and the more elongated, pointier, triangular style of Siamese that is now in fashion.

Tallulah is and example of the more triangular face, while Elvira is more of a rounded "applehead" version.

[Logan]

Thank you, Karen!! I had no idea. Butter is definitely an "apple head"!!!

[wayne0214]

Karen, thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware that the triangular head Siamese was "in fashion", thinking that the more triangular head was the original Siamese. Sounds so simple, but there is much to learn about my kitties. I'm waiting to get someone in here to set up my camera so I can send pictures of my two "Appleheads", Snow Cat and Snow Tiger, over the 'net. thanks again,

..........wayne

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[Logan]

Spencer, do you remember when you called my Butter, a "Butter Ball"??? One of my "apple head" first pictures.

[4 feline house]

Wayne, to answer the second question you brought up, all Siamese are "color points" but not all color points are "Siamese". Siamese is a breed, color point is a coat pattern. Other color points are ragdolls, showshoes, birmans and himilayans, to name a few off the top of my head. But the points can show up in any mixed breed and can even be patterned - I had a little tortie point whose dark areas were tortoiseshell. Even her light areas had faint spots of a lighter shade. Some color points have tabby points. All color points also have the blue eyes and retinas that reflect red (instead of green) in car headlights.

[wayne0214]

Logan, I may have already said this, but your Butter looks exactly like my Snow-Cat, at least from that point of view. However, from the small photo's top view (assuming that is Butter), Snow Cat has more flame color on him, especially his tail.

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[wayne0214]

Leah, so,if I understand you correctly just because Snow Cat is color point, that does not automatically mean that he is Siamese, even though he has blue eyes that cross. I strongly believe however, that there is Siamese in these cats of mine, because of the obvious Siamese features show up now and then, including those cats that I have given away. Yet, I was unaware that all color points have blue eyes. Very interesting! And thanks again for your knowledgeable reply

.........wayne

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[4 feline house]

Wayne, acutally, the "points" are the result of a gene that allows darker pigment to form in colder areas, hence the ears, face, feet and tail being darker, as they tend to be colder parts of the body. It is not exclusive to cats, either. In fact, the Himalayan cat was so named because their patterns resembled rabbits and goats living in the Himalayan mountains. The fact that temperature was a factor was proved when a himalayan rabbit was fitted with a cold pack on its back when it was a kit - when it was removed the rabbit had a dark patch. We had a Siamese that spent her kittenhood in Denver and was very dark all over, and another who spent her kittenhood in San Antonio, whose body color was nearly white.

Other colorpoint facts you may find interesting:

It is generally thought that the Siamese is the genetic origin of all pointed cats, so it would only be natural that pointed cats share other traits with a Siamese.

All eye colors are linked to coat pattern, so all colorpoint cats will have blue eyes.

The colorpoint gene is incompletely dominant, which means a cross between an incomplete dominant and a recessive will result in a mix - which is how tortie points, lynx points and showshoes have come into being. This is also why so many, many cats who are pointed show some characteristic that they are not purebred Siamese - such as white toes.

Colorpoints are born white, and start developing their colors after about a week.

But, anyway, the only way to know that your cats, or any cats, are purebred, is to have their papers. But if they have no tabby markings or white areas anywhere on their coats, they are probably so genetically close to being Siamese that they are, in essence, Siamese!

Are we ever going to get to see photies of all your sweeties?

[wayne0214]

Snow Cat's coat appears artificial, it looks and feels so smooth and (bleached) white,- without any other markings on it. The only part of him that has any tabby markings is on his tail. In fact, he does not even have tabby mask markings on his face. OK, on the probability of him being Siamese, geneticallly. I certainly am proud of him. After looking over some show cats on the web, I honestly feel that Snow Cat would give them some old- fashioned competition. He does not have any papers, but at least I would like to enter him into a HHP cat show. in fact,I have even thought of giving him one of those fancy breeder's names: how about "wayne's unexpected valentine of elderoot"?

I did find someone who knows how to set up the camera, supposing that he would have done it yesterday after dinner, but that fell through. He lives here locally so, I'm thinking that it won't be long.

............wayne

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]


[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: wayne0214 ]

[purrley]

Leah - I was so impressed on how you know your Siamese. I agree with everything except that all color points are born white. I saw my Spencer (chocolate point) right after birth and he exhibited a mask - however faint, it was there. I've seen new born Seal Points and they have their masks at birth and get darker as they mature. The blue, lilac and other lighter color points are as you say born white - but the darker color points are visible at birth. I've raised Siamese for a lot of years and have showed a couple in cat shows. I really like the apple heads but my slim and trim original breeds are very beautiful. I do love the long, skinny, big eared look (as Spencer the Lion says - cross between Ross Poirot and Callista Lockhart) breed.

[4 feline house]

Purrley - and actually, they're not even really white. I suspected my tortie point might turn out to be a colorpoint because her body color, although still being "white", was not the same "white" as the patches on her tortie sister and mom. Sure enough, within a few days the tips of her ears and tail started to darken, and within a week it was clear she was pointed. It still was a few more weeks before I realized she was going to be a tortie point!