Talk about stubborn men...

[catnapper]

I have a man-in-training at home! He's 17 going on "I know everything"

Yesterday, I get a call from his English teacher telling me that he's failing her class, that he has not handed in anything this week. She announced over the loud-speaker for him to come see her after school... he didn't show up. His sister told him he was paged and he told her that he was not going to see the teacher. I asked him about the class and its quite a bit different story, so I call the teacher back; she was willing to meet with my husband last night LOL... BTW: I met with this teacher earlier in the year.

Well, my son knew he was caught in his little lie abot the teacher and when my husband met with her, he found out the truth and what was necessary to pass. So, all the boy has to do is write this paper that was due today. We were willing to help, but he refused. He typed it on the spare computer (slow as a slug) because he knew if he used ours, we would be hovering and helping.

He only put a disk in our computer to print it and called it a night. His mistake was leaving the disk in my computer. OMG! He used spell check, but did not proof read. There was mistake after mistake because spell-check replaced a word but he didn't verify that the replacement made sense... ie: state instead of star. life instead of love. Not to mention Tense Confusion - was / is / will all in the same paragraph.

We wake him up so that he can repair the paper. He refuses He starts to fight, then leaves the house... not returning til 1:30!!!! And he ended up handing in the un-proof-read paper. I don't want him to fail, but I wish he would get the grade he truly deserves just to learn a lesson.

If you've read this far... either you understand or are really bored Any suggestions on what we can do?

[Kfamr]

Generally I do good with writing papers because I LOVE to write...
But from experience on the other side, bribes always work for me.

[K9soul]

Goodness, he just doesn't seem motivated at all. I'm not sure how much you can do at this point that you haven't already tried. It may be has to just face the consequences of failing. I think there comes a point when you have done all you really can. It's not like at 17 you can make him go to his room without supper .

I'd say you really have tried, and he'll have to just face the consequences of his actions..

But I don't have any children myself so perhaps someone else will have better advice for you. I know it has to be tough for you!

[G.P.girl]

well i don't think i'm going to be much help here...it's not like yuo can give him a good old fashioned spanking like in the old days

[catnapper]

Originally posted by G.P.girl
well i don't think i'm going to be much help here...it's not like yuo can give him a good old fashioned spanking like in the old days

You can try that to someone taller than you!

and if we send him to his room without supper, we might save $100 on our weekly food bills!

[RICHARD]

AHEM......


Stubborn men???

Woman: Just stop and ask....

Man: No, I know where we are..

W: But we have passed that same building three times

M: I like the art deco style of the front door..

W: We are going to be late....

M: The tickets say 8:00 p.m......It's only 7:58...we still have time....

W: We are almost out of gas...

M: The needle says "ONE MORE LINE"- We can go 15 MORE blocks....

W: Pull over, He just turned on the roof lights....

M: I'll just pull over to let him by.....

M: Officer, It's all her fault she INSISTED we get to the place on time.......



Talk about stubborn...

[cali]

personally I would be pretty upset if my parents read my paper, I am a very privat person, and being as stubbern as I am there is no way I would fix it if my parents invaded my privacy and read it, yes it would hurt me in the long run, but being your sons age I can understand his point of veiw. just some insight from the other side lol personally if I notice things myself I will fix them myself, but if my mom read my essay and started complaining about mistakes I personally would be rather pissed.

[K9soul]

That's actually a good point too cali, and something to consider. I probably would have been upset as well. I also understand from a concerned parent's point of view too, but at his age he is probably not going to look at it from a parent's point of view at all.

[Amber]

I can relate!

My brother who is 17 is in the I-dont-care-anymore stage....yeesh

[catnapper]

Originally posted by cali
personally I would be pretty upset if my parents read my paper, I am a very privat person, and being as stubbern as I am there is no way I would fix it if my parents invaded my privacy and read it, yes it would hurt me in the long run, but being your sons age I can understand his point of veiw. just some insight from the other side lol personally if I notice things myself I will fix them myself, but if my mom read my essay and started complaining about mistakes I personally would be rather pissed.

True, but he is failing the class. When a teacher is concerned enough to call home and alert the parents, the time is now for action. One thing I didn't mention was that my son is very dyslexic. This is his first main-stream english class... last year his class had 7 (including him) kids and it was a remedial english class. He knows he needs us to help him. He knows that his vocabulary & sentence structure is far below what he should have. He knows that I am more than willing to help him revise and rework the paper so that it is in his own words, yet clean and ... well... readable.

He also knows that if he fails this class, then he will not be running track this season. This kid is a track superstar. He runs 6 to 10K marathons every other weekned and running is his life. Failing = no running. I think he's so upset at knowing this is IT. I think he thinks that his grade is so far gone that he won't be able to pull it up. I think that he'd embarassed that he's not "getting it". So, with that said, why the fighting us? You'd think he'd be begging for help... not leaving the house at midnight to sit in the cold. I tell you, he's just like his father!

[catnapper]

PS Cali, I totally agree with you... I'd be on fire if my parents did that. However, the kids all know that the policy of the house is that schoolwork comes first and we are going to do whatever neccessary to help. My parents never had that policy and never ever once tried to help me with a project or paper... this is the difference between my angry reaction from my own kids. The girls basically kiss us when we help them. They ask for our help proofreading all the time.

We also told him earlier that we would be reading it and helping him. He blew us off. We told his teacher (with him there) that we would be helping him. So now, with him handing this paper in looking like it did, the teacher must think we're complete idiots.

[moosmom]

Catnapper,

When I was growing up, I didn't have my parents help. I feel for you really. 17 is a very tough age. Hormones are raging, tempers flaring and opinions VERY different!! When I was young, my parents grounded me. Nowadays, you send a kid to their room, they've got a computer, video games, tv, you name it!! It's like their own personal arcade!

I also know what it's like to have a child with a "limitation" (I hate the word disability). My daughter had a malignant brain tumor (Pineal Blastoma) on her brain stem at the age of 16. The tumor was removed and she is now 27 and has limitations (like her brain processing things), although she is living on her own, working, doing well. But when I try to explain things to her (like my Mom used to do to me) about dating, letting the guy call you, HIM making the first move, she thinks she knows EVERYTHING. I try to tell her MY life experiences in the dating scene, but she doesn't seem to get it. So I just sit there and say "Whatever!!" I swear I'm gonna get a teeshirt with that on it!

I've since decided it's best to let her learn on her own. If it hurts, too bad. That's what life is all about.

I've been there, done that. I only hope that you find the strength and wisdom to keep your sanity in tact, long enough to see the moving truck pull away!!!

The old saying is "Live Long Enough to be a Problem to your Children!!"

[Fox-Gal]

Once you said he was dyslexic, I could see your problem. I've had to deal with that all my life, so I can understand your feelings and his.

So I'm going to throw a few things out to you, if you don't mind.

You asked his to proff read his paper, not a problem except that he might not be able to. You have to remember that the words might have looked right to him, they will and can change on him as he reads. I'm sure you know that already. So did you ask him if he already proof read it or did you assume he didn't? How you picked your words when you woke him up, might have something to do with the fight. You can't image what it like to try hard on something and be told that it is not accectable. Just because a person knows they have a problem, does not take away from the embarrassment that still comes with it. Like you said he might have been embarassed that he's not "getting it" and that the reson he left. But being a 17 year old man, as he most likely thinks of himself, he didn't want to deal with it. It's easier to get up and leave. He knows you want to help, but he's 17 and getting help from his parents, could be hard for him, male ego and all.

My Father and I still to this day talk about my spelling lessons with him or as we call them "The Crying game" One minute I get them right, 5 minutes later they where all wrong. A lot of hard words where sproken between the both of us, from my embarrassment to his frustration in me. They were some bad times that still hurt to this day. I so wished that he had choice a different way. If he had just told me he understood that I had a problem but it was not my fault that he knew even with my problem I was still a intelligent girl and would make it. Even now at 40+ years of age, I'm still get embarrassed when someone catches my mistakes.

I do know your frustrated with him and you have a right, but what I'm saying is choise your words right with him, just in case he feels that embarrassment, that most of us feel with this problem. He will never amit to it, but I have a feeling it's there. Tell him you read his paper sense it happen to still be on the putter and it was a great paper, he did a good job, but there are just a few mistakes that the both of you might want to look at real quick, if he likes. Make the problems look small, give him some hope that he is "getting it".

Let him know how proud of him you are and offer to help if he wants it, make him feel he has a say in it. If he doesn't take it then he learned from his own mistakes. Maybe next time he will take the offer of help, the lose of his track, could be the wake up call he needs. Knowing you need help is one thing, asking for it is another and thats come with maturity and time. How do most people learn to ask for help, by making mistakes and learning from them. If he's off the track team, then as hard as it might be, thats life in the real world, for ever action there is a reaction.

I'm only going by what little you said here and my own childhood, so I could be off, who knows. Does his teacher know he has this problem? I was lucky mine did and worked with me with out anyone knowing. Thats was the most important thing for me, that noone knew. She also graded me with the knowledge that I had a problem and so some of the little mistakes were over looked. Maybe that was wrong, but I made it through college with a B.A. because of the confidence she instilled in me. That and have a good friend the proff read my papers for me.

[catnapper]

Fox-Gal, thank you for your input! Lets see if I hit all of your points...

First off, I honestly do know how he feels - I'm great with letters & words, but put numbers in front of me and everything swims. I've never been tested, & I don't know if there is even dyslexia of numbers - but I'm soooo very bad. I was fired from a job because I kept making the same mistakes... not good when you're responsible for quotes and ordering products. I would tell the customer one price and be off by hundreds od dollars or order an item from a numerical ordering system and get a blue lunchroom chair when I wanted a green desk chair. Its frustrating because no matter how hard you try, no matter how many times you look at something, no matter how slow or fast you work: the math/numbers are still wrong.

As for the paper, he admited he didn't proof it. He was peeved that he had to do the paper in the first place. When we woke him, it was my husband saying, "Son, you need to sit with us and go over this. We proofed it for you and it needs a little work before tomorrow." He said he wouldn't and that it wasn't fair... he wanted to sleep.

His teacher is more than aware of his dyslexia. He has a formal IEP written up that all of the teachers must follow. The IEP outlines accomodations the teachers must follow... they must give him preferencial seating, allow extra time for tests, he can take tests in the resource room, can have something read to him, books can be on tape rather than read, etc.

His "crying game" comes from my frsutration with him and his handwriting. His handwriting is worse than a doctors! I can't read it, and neither can any of his teachers. He refuses to type his homework. And even though he's had years of typing and computer clases, he's absolutely terrible on the computer. Its painstaking to watch him type. And for some rason, he has a knack of completely destroying a computer! He has ruined three computers in three years! I don't know how!!! Seriously, he just touches it and *poof* the thing shuts down! We bought a brand new computer in August (spent a fortune) and I got it all set up, all virus proofed, and he sat at this brand spanking new computer for two minutes before FATAL ERROR showed up on the monitor! We had to return it! So I try to help him by typing for him. This is where my fighting starts with him because I can't make heads or tails of the writing, he won't dictate to me. Then he just sits there while I struggle to read his work. The sentences are incomplete or non-sensical... but I know that is because he thinking ahead of what he has written.

I don't know what to do for him anymore. He's too proud to admit that he's frustrated. He thinks that anytime I help him, that he's not pulling his own weight since the work isn't his... at least thats my take on it.

[Fox-Gal]

Sounds like you are trying and do understand, thats great, more then I got.

I had to laugh about the hand writting being worse then a Dr., I heard that so many times about mine too. I don't know about your son, but I started writting that way so no one could read my mistakes, I guess I thought I was fooling people.

I think you are right, pride has a lot to do with it. Pride can be a down fall in some cases, as you know.

Could his problem also be the reason he doesn't want to read his papers to you? Just wondering. He might not feel confident enough in his reading, with those letters moving and all.

I wish I knew what to say to help you out, your stuck between a rock and a hard place. Wanting the best for him but fighting with his pride, embarrassment, age and dyslexic. Thats a hard battle. He has to get over his embarrassment and pride first before anything else. It took me a long time not to be embarrassed about it, as much, you just have to keep telling your self that it's not your fault, it makes you no less of a person then anyone else, just special. It takes a special person to turn a word around so well. LOL

Have you done the tutor route, trained to teach children with dyslexia? I so wish they had that back in my day, but back then you where just thought of a dumb, it wasn't as well known. Even now my husband said I sould have not put my problem out on the forum. He feels I opened myself up to get hurt by others. There are still people that look at you as if theres something wrong with you.

I know you said he's not good at typing, but thats is what has helped me, the more I write and or type, the less mistakes I make, use or lose it. One of the main reasons after I retired that I got online. Once I didn't have to do paper work any more I saw a decline in my skills, so I starting chatting and going to forums like this one. I'm still not great at it but a he$^ of a lot better then I was.

BTW: numbers are no different then words, they can swim around too. Dyslexia does not limit its self to just words, so I have been told.